Mixed Emotion on Food/Poops

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kellyl
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Posts: 11
Country: United States
State: New York
Pet name: Wade
My name: Kelly

Mixed Emotion on Food/Poops

Post by kellyl » 27 Jul 2020, 17:10

Hi. Just feeling all over the place and wondering if I'm doing any of this right? Wade will be 19 weeks old tomorrow. He is gaining and as of 7/13 weighed 22 lbs. He's come a long way since his lowest at 14lbs.

We recently started him on the Wonderlabs B12 pill with his dinner. Tonight will be his 5th night. His B12 level back on 6/24 was 651 so I "think" the B12 is OK. Did I read though that it should help with the poop being harder?

Enzyme: We've had the enzyme at all different levels, waiting 4-7 days in between before we try making a change. On 7/11 we increased enzyme to 1 tsp. On 7/21 we backed it off to 3/4 tsp per meal. All the while we have seen poops in a wide range. From soft piles that you have to kinda scoop into the bag to pick it up, to a few times log like poops that are easy to pick up. But nothing has been consistent. Today, we started the Enzyme powder from Enzyme Diane. On the package it said that it can be strong so we started with 1/2 tsp per meal. I just did this at lunch so I have no idea what the poop outcome will be. Am I starting to low?

His food is dry kibble - Hills Science Diet Large Breed Puppy Lamb and Rice. 3 cups of food per day (6am, noon, 6pm feedings).

I am mixing the cup of food, with the enzyme powder and then adding 1/4 cup of room temperature bottle water. Then letting it sit for 20 minutes before feeding him.

He is on no other medicine. Just adding the B12 to his dinner by sprinkling it on the top of his food.

Being a puppy, I don't know what other food to try as I know Rice isn't good for the EPI dogs. The dog food does meet the low in Fiber that is recommended.

What am I missing? I'd love to see harder poops.

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Jean
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Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: Mixed Emotion on Food/Poops

Post by Jean » 28 Jul 2020, 04:13

Good morning Kelly from the UK, Actually Liverpool

Wade is precious, and at 19 weeks will be delightful

OK prescription diets are not necessary unless there is another medical issue, it might be better to find a grain, rice free kibble suitable for puppies

something like this one

https://www.chewy.com/taste-wild-pacifi ... /dp/181326

our dogs dont in the main, do well on chicken or poultry fat in their diet, mine couldnt ever have either in kibble, but cook her fresh chicken , that was fine, total enigma

the rule of thumb with Dianes 6x enzymes is 1 teaspoon per cup of kibble which is 8 ounces, I have never heard its different with puppies, but she is very aproachable by phone

which strength of her enzymes are you using ?

b12 is essential to their digestion

https://www.petmd.com/dog/wellness/evr_ ... py_for_epi

it can plummet over night so I would give permanently

My Kara was on it for life

does he have any tummy rumbles ?

we recommend a course of Tylosin for 45 days , this might help with the poops,

its all a game of trial with EPI none are the same

keep your diary and let us know



Jeanx
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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kellyl
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Posts: 11
Country: United States
State: New York
Pet name: Wade
My name: Kelly

Re: Mixed Emotion on Food/Poops

Post by kellyl » 29 Jul 2020, 09:33

Thanks so much Jean for your reply.

I will look into that dog food. Do you know why our dogs can't handle the rice? Is it a digestion issue? We've been turned on to the Purina pro plan puppy sensitive skin and stomach - lamb and oatmeal. The fiber is still under the 4% so we are going to start weening him onto that. He bites as himself horribly all of the time so I'm hoping it works for that as well.

We increased his food intake (as he always seems hungry to us) and went to 1 1/2 cups, 3x per day. Using 1 tsp of the Diane's enzyme 6x. But this morning he had a huge accident on the couch :( I think what I was most upset over was that it was a huge cow pile. Wade does have tummy grumbles and I am wondering if he doesn't in fact need the Tylan. I think I will call the vet today.

He's a super cute and active puppy, who loves to chew on my shoes when I turn my back for 5 minutes. LOL... He's got the puppy stage down to a T. :)

I appreciate the feedback and the support....

Barb
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Re: Mixed Emotion on Food/Poops

Post by Barb » 29 Jul 2020, 12:24

When you increased Wade's food amount, it looks like you didn't adjust his enzymes at the same time, which might account for the cow pie. We usually recommend that the 6x dose of enzymes be 1 teaspoon per cup....so you could increase the enzymes to 1 and 1/2 for 1 and 1/2 cups of food to see if that helps.

And yes, most of our pups need a 45 day treatment with tylan.

Love that puppy stage! He is a cutie!



Barb

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kellyl
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Posts: 11
Country: United States
State: New York
Pet name: Wade
My name: Kelly

Re: Mixed Emotion on Food/Poops

Post by kellyl » 29 Jul 2020, 14:28

Thank you Barb. I wasn't sure on the enzyme but I think you are right. I will adjust the enzyme accordingly and then see if that helps. I also have a call into the vet to see if they will give me a script of the tylan. I feel he is needing that. I just feel like in less than 48 hours we've gone completely backwards. And thank you, he is super cute and I think he knows it! Which is probably what keeps him out of trouble when he chews on my shoes! LOL..

Barb
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Re: Mixed Emotion on Food/Poops

Post by Barb » 29 Jul 2020, 17:12

Try not to get too discouraged. The beginning is the hardest stage......you are trying to get everything balanced while worrying about your pup. And as you probably have witnessed, every dog is unique in how they respond to food, enzymes, SID etc. It will get easier once you find the balance between the food and enzymes. We understand. We have all been there. When Kolby was diagnosed, we went through 5 or 6 foods. And he hated the enzymes. He would look at us like we were trying to poison him. It seems funny now, but it wasn't then. You will find the correct balance for that cute boy. Hang in there.

Barb

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Madelon
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Re: Mixed Emotion on Food/Poops

Post by Madelon » 29 Jul 2020, 23:32

Hi there! What a precious puppy boy!

My first suggestion is to wait two full weeks between changes - some dogs - like mine (insert eye roll with a lot of love) are very sensitive and will not show a reaction to change for two weeks.

My next suggestion is with the next meal - grate up some carrot - they don't digest carrots so watch for it in the poop - on your EPI log note the date and time of when you put the carrot in the food and then note the date and time (and there may be more than one) when you see the carrot in the poop. This will tell you his transition time. This will help you know if the poop you are seeing is from this morning's meal, yesterday's meal or even the day before. We now know that a dog's transition time can be anywhere between 12-72hrs.

Next, go back to using the recommended dose of enzymes - 1 level teaspoon per cup of kibble. If after a week or two the poops are still bad, try reducing to 3/4tsp per cup of kibble. If poops are still bad it is likely the food is not agreeing with your pup because of the grains or your dealing with SID and need antibiotics or slippery elm park powder.

Next, please switch to a grain free food. The reason we suggest this is because grains can interfere with the efficacy of the enzymes. So while you might be using a low fiber food, the grain can make the enzymes less effective and thus you might need more and trying to figure that out can be difficult. Jean gave you a good one to try.

Have you been treating for SID? If not, it may be time to try Tylan antibiotic or Slippery Elm Bark powder.

Please keep us posted on what you try and how things are going.
Madelon, owned by DOC. DOC dx EPI 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24. DOC taught me so much and together we battled and overcame EPI, food sensitivies, environmental allergies but we lost the cancer battle. DOC was dx with hemangiosarcoma 5/2022 and crossed the rainbow bridge July 24, 2022. He is and always will be the love of my life, my soulmate, my heart dog.

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kellyl
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Country: United States
State: New York
Pet name: Wade
My name: Kelly

Re: Mixed Emotion on Food/Poops

Post by kellyl » 11 Aug 2020, 12:56

Hi. I wanted to take a few minutes to post a reply back as I have been meaning to do this for the past week or so but the days get away from me very quickly. I think we turned a page with Wade and are finally on a positive course with him for now. I was so thankful for all of your suggestions and they helped me to talk with the vet and get some things switched around.

The vet put him on a course of Tylan for his SID. We started that on 8/4 and in a few quick day or so we now have poop that you can pick up without having to try and pick up all the grass around it. I've also noticed that his belly grumbles are gone. What happens when this script is over? Do the dogs tend to need multiple rounds of this, be on this permanent or should his system just try and regulate itself on it's own?

We've also started him on his new puppy food and that is working very well for him. With that I am also noticing him not itching himself like he would so I think that's helping his skin as well.

We had him weighed and he is 31.5 pounds!!! He's now 5 months old and is only about 7-8 pounds behind a few of his litter mates. So to say I am so excited about his weight is an understatement.

We are feeding him 2 cups of food, 3 times a day with 2tsp of enzyme. The 1 1/2 cup of food wasn't cutting it and he seemed hungry more often. We will watch the food dose and his weight to keep him within a healthy weight.

Again - so grateful for this group! Thank you for the ongoing support!

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jilbert57
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Re: Mixed Emotion on Food/Poops

Post by jilbert57 » 11 Aug 2020, 18:44

What a great update. Keep up the good work!

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

Tuckaboo Pam
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Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: Mixed Emotion on Food/Poops

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 11 Aug 2020, 18:56

Kelly, it's Pam. My Tucker has been taking tylan for over a year, and while we have been able to drastically reduce the dose, it seems he will always need to take a touch of it with each meal. We did not have luck with slippery elm. We now buy tylan from a pigeon supply company, but no need to make a rebel out of you so early in the game. When I think about the road that brought Tucker to my family, I am very grateful he came to us instead of to some of the other people who wanted him, because we are able to help with his condition. Wade is lucky to have come to your family, too. Take care, and YEA! on the weight gain & the pick-up-able poo!
Tucker was a shepherd/lab mix--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Took Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 1 1/2 cups/day, with a total of 4 cups of Fresh Pet. Stopped eating everything in sight, and went from 60 to 85 pounds! Tucker was my boyfriend, and my husband was OK with that. Tucker succumbed to hemangiosarcoma, but we cherished every day we had with that wonderful, beautiful boy. I will always, always miss my sweet big boy.

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