Vit B12

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
Hugo
Member
Posts: 4
Country: Australia
Pet name: Hugo
My name: Kim

Vit B12

Post by Hugo » 02 Aug 2020, 23:11

Good afternoon,
I am new to this site. I live in QLD Australia and have a 19mth old GSD diagnosed with EPI in March this year.
We had his Vit B12 level done last week, it is 290. Wanting to know if he needs a course of injections first or just oral medication??
Poos have firmed up, still getting occasional cow pats, and sometimes yellow colour. He had put on 5kg with creon and change in diet, however had lost 1 kg recently. He weighs 32.6kg, up from his lowest at 28.6kg. He is a happy and energetic pup.

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Jean
Forum Director
Posts: 1707
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: Vit B12

Post by Jean » 03 Aug 2020, 06:44

Hello and welcome from the UK

https://www.petmd.com/dog/wellness/evr_ ... py_for_epi

b12 is essential to an EPI dog

have a look at wonderlabs

https://www.wonderlabs.com/itemleft.php?itemnum=K9688

I think you can get them from on line in Australia

my Kara had 12 weeks of b12 injections

the numbers you posted are VERY low for an EPI dog, should be in the 600's

tell us more
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

Hugo
Member
Posts: 4
Country: Australia
Pet name: Hugo
My name: Kim

Re: Vit B12

Post by Hugo » 03 Aug 2020, 07:05

Thank you Jean, sorry to hear that your dog has passed away.

I think we can get the wonderlabs via Amazon on the internet, but really need to know what is the best way to move forward initially to get his level up.

We only give Hugo Creon 10000 with each meal at the moment, might need to try some fresh pig pancreas??
He has hypoallergenic dry dog food and also some grain free duck, chicken and vegetable dry.
Some days his poos are really good and other days not so.

This EPI is very difficult and rather frustrating at times to manage. We are on a steep learning curve, but more than happy to give it our best shot for our beautiful young pup.

Thank you, Kim.

Tuckaboo Pam
Member
Posts: 1345
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: Vit B12

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 03 Aug 2020, 18:08

Hi Kim, it's Pam in Florida. Has your vet ever prescribed tylan/tylosin for Hugo? It settles the SID that is typical in EPI dogs, and can have a great effect on the consistency of the poo. You are in good hands, here at this forum; these ladies will help you get him straightened out. Take care!
Tucker was a shepherd/lab mix--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Took Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 1 1/2 cups/day, with a total of 4 cups of Fresh Pet. Stopped eating everything in sight, and went from 60 to 85 pounds! Tucker was my boyfriend, and my husband was OK with that. Tucker succumbed to hemangiosarcoma, but we cherished every day we had with that wonderful, beautiful boy. I will always, always miss my sweet big boy.

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Kodis Mom
Staff
Posts: 62
Location: Custer, WA.
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Vit B12

Post by Kodis Mom » 03 Aug 2020, 18:26

Happy to see you made it on the forum. The following might be helpful to you if you have not seen it yet. https://epi4dogs.com/epi-quick-guides-outside-usa/
Kodi
B. 8/19/2010 Diagnosed at 11 months.
Kodi is now on Natures Logic turkey and/or pork kibble, 2 cups with 2 teaspoons of enzymes, 1/8 teaspoon of ground coriander, 1/16 teaspoon of cinnamon and ground fennel seed (for tummy upsets) twice a day, plus one one B12 capsule from Wonderlabs. She has been very stable and on occasion needs a dose ofTylan.
She is our second GSD with EPI. It was not so scary this time ! And thank goodness for epi4dogs.com ! 💝 Kodi passed on August 25, 2023 just after her 13th birthday.💝 Forever grateful to Olesia and epi4dogs. She live a long and adventurous life with EPI.

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Kodis Mom
Staff
Posts: 62
Location: Custer, WA.
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Vit B12

Post by Kodis Mom » 03 Aug 2020, 18:29

Also, I have only used the Wonderlabs B12 with great success. Started by using 2 capsules a day, and have been maintaining without a day.
Kodi
B. 8/19/2010 Diagnosed at 11 months.
Kodi is now on Natures Logic turkey and/or pork kibble, 2 cups with 2 teaspoons of enzymes, 1/8 teaspoon of ground coriander, 1/16 teaspoon of cinnamon and ground fennel seed (for tummy upsets) twice a day, plus one one B12 capsule from Wonderlabs. She has been very stable and on occasion needs a dose ofTylan.
She is our second GSD with EPI. It was not so scary this time ! And thank goodness for epi4dogs.com ! 💝 Kodi passed on August 25, 2023 just after her 13th birthday.💝 Forever grateful to Olesia and epi4dogs. She live a long and adventurous life with EPI.

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Shirl D.
Staff
Posts: 86
Country: United States
State: New York

Re: Vit B12

Post by Shirl D. » 04 Aug 2020, 16:06

Hi Kim,

Most EPI dogs will respond well to either the pills with intrinsic factor or injections to get their B12 up, so it's really your choice. Definitely take a look at our quick guide for Australia at the link Kodi's Mom posted. Pam gave great advice about tylan; unfortunately it seems that tylan is no longer available in Australia. The quick guide for Australia does have information on what antibiotics are recommended there.

It sounds like you've had some improvement, but something needs to be adjusted since the poops still aren't consistent and he recently lost some weight. Have you seen the information on Creon dose on this page? https://epi4dogs.com/enzyme-list/ There is information on finding the dose that will work for your dog. You may have to adjust the dose to get the results you want. Sometimes any enzyme will help initially, but then you can see a backslide if the dose isn't quite right, so that could explain what's going on. Fresh pig pancreas is an option, but that can be difficult to dose (each pancreas has a different amount of enzymes, versus the Creon which is regulated) and, from what I've heard, just unpleasant to deal with.

The other thing to keep in mind is that most EPI dogs do best on foods that have less than 4% fiber. What is the listed fiber content in the foods you are using?

You are absolutely right....EPI can be very confusing and frustrating, but you've already had some success. You will get there. Keep asking questions. The beginning is by far the hardest part. Once you figure out what works for your dog, it becomes routine. Pixie's been stable for 9 years, with an occasional tweak of enzymes or round of tylan for SID. Hang in there!

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Madelon
Staff
Posts: 1317
Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
State: Tennessee
Pet name: Doc

Re: Vit B12

Post by Madelon » 15 Aug 2020, 16:49

Hey Kim. Just wanted to check in and see which B12 you used and how things are going. We recommend using the B12 injections in the beginning to get the B12 level up quickly, however, several of us including myself were not able to do the shots for one reason or another and just opted for the B12 pills with intrinisc factor.
Madelon, owned by DOC. DOC dx EPI 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24. DOC taught me so much and together we battled and overcame EPI, food sensitivies, environmental allergies but we lost the cancer battle. DOC was dx with hemangiosarcoma 5/2022 and crossed the rainbow bridge July 24, 2022. He is and always will be the love of my life, my soulmate, my heart dog.

Hugo
Member
Posts: 4
Country: Australia
Pet name: Hugo
My name: Kim

Re: Vit B12

Post by Hugo » 28 Sep 2020, 07:25

Good evening all,
Thank you for your replies regarding the Vit B12 for Hugo. He is just on a human Vit b12 twice a week, however I am going to put 1 each day and see if this makes a difference. I have ordered some pancreas from the butcher and he says that he supplies other EPI dog families with pancreas. I have asked him to pass on my details to these other families of EPI dogs so that i can have a chat with them about what they use here in Australia. I have read all of the information many times over and i am armed and off to the vet to see if we can fill in the missing pieces.
Hugo is back up to 33.5kg this week.
He still does large volumes of poo many times a day. What should his poo volume be like if the epi is under control?
Many thanks,
Kim.

Tuckaboo Pam
Member
Posts: 1345
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: Vit B12

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 28 Sep 2020, 14:35

Kim, I will be interested in the answer to your question, too. Tucker's poop is pretty near beautiful, and the amount is small to medium, but it' happens about 6 times a day. Of course, this is down from 12 gigantic plops, so I'm not complaining, but it does seem like every time we go outside, he squeaks one out. ---Pam
Tucker was a shepherd/lab mix--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Took Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 1 1/2 cups/day, with a total of 4 cups of Fresh Pet. Stopped eating everything in sight, and went from 60 to 85 pounds! Tucker was my boyfriend, and my husband was OK with that. Tucker succumbed to hemangiosarcoma, but we cherished every day we had with that wonderful, beautiful boy. I will always, always miss my sweet big boy.

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