I did a search but really didn’t find anything that addressed the issue, apologize if my google-fu game needs work
Our 6 y/o Red Heeler (Ralph) was just diagnosed w/EPI. Doc prescribed him 1/8 tsp of Viokase per meal. We are feeding him 3/4 cup LID kibble + 1 tbsp LID wet 4 times a day (roughly 150% of the recommended daily portion). I incubate the food for 30 minutes at each meal.
I know the dosage is less than the recommended 1 tsp per cup, but we noticed an immediate change in the texture of his poop after his 2nd meal. Poop looks normal, but has a mustard smell to it. He’s been taking the viokase since Monday afternoon (so about 2 days).
Wondering if this is normal with enzymes, if it’s something that will eventually normalize, or it’s a result of an incorrect dosage or some other potential issue.
I’m keeping a poop/food/med/weight diary while to tweak his diet. I’m so thankful for this site and forum...very educational and helpful so far.
Thanks in advance!!
Poop Smells like Mustard?
Re: Poop Smells like Mustard?
Please try bumping the enzymes to 1 level teaspoon per 1 cup food. I would think with the 3/4 c kibble plus 1 T wet food would be about right for 1 t enzyme.
Are you feeding a grain free kibble? The fiber needs to be 4% dry weight or less.
Thanks
Jill
Are you feeding a grain free kibble? The fiber needs to be 4% dry weight or less.
Thanks
Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.
Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014
Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.
Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014
Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.
Re: Poop Smells like Mustard?
Thanks! Yes, the food we are giving him meet the recommendations per this site for protein/fat/fiber.
It’s also grain free.
It’s also grain free.
Re: Poop Smells like Mustard?
Good. Thank you!
Jill
Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.
Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014
Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.
Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014
Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.
- Olesia711
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Re: Poop Smells like Mustard?
Glad the enzymes are working.... but this is just the beginning when you are trying to sort things out. I agree with Jill, please up the enzymes as she recommended..... BUT.... also keep an eye on the poos.. As sometimes what happens is that everyone gets excited cause the enzymes work and things appear to be going in the right direction and then WHAMO.... a couple of weeks or so down the road, the poos get sloppy looking. What this means (if this happens)is that YES, the enzymes are working, but now you are seeing the effects of SID out of control. Just a FYI.... ALL dogs with EPI have SID (small intestinal dysbiosis) a secondary condition of EPI. The objective is to keep it in good control. IF you start to see any of these signs, repeated.... then you need to address SID:
If the dog displays any repeated signs of yellowish-coloring to the stools, loose stools, gelatinous stool coating, upchucking, vomiting with bile, flatulence, lack of appetite, stomach noises, low or low normal B12 then treat for possible secondary SID/SIBO. Previously we automatically treated with antibiotics, however, we now suggest to first try addressing with a “prebiotic” , many of us use Slippery Elm powder https://epi4dogs.com/slippery-elm/
Sometimes using a prebiotic, or even a prebiotic with a probiotic, is enough to get the SID under good control. If not, then we suggest using a course of Tylan (Tylosin Tartrate). https://epi4dogs.com/antibiotics/
Tylosin is preferred, Metronidazole may or may not work, and sometimes Amoxycillin is used if the Tylosin or Metro doesn’t work or doesn’t work well enough alone. Tylosin appears to work best for the majority of EPI dogs with SID/SIBO.
The current recommended Tylosin dosage has recently been changed to “25mg/kg BID with food for 6 weeks”, but some still prefer to administer twice daily [every 12 hours] with food:
30 lbs – 1/8 tsp 60lb – 1/4 tsp
90 lb – 3/8 tsp 120 lb – 1/2 tsp
A response to the antibiotics should be seen within 7 to 10 days- -if improvement is seen during this time period, indicating that SID/SIBO is present, the antibiotics should be continued for a total 6 weeks, or at the very least a minimum of 4 weeks.
If a positive response is not seen within 7-10 days, change the antibiotic. Most EPI dogs appear to respond best to Tylosin, but if not, switch to Metronidazole (or switch from Metro to Tylan). With exceptionally difficult SID/SIBO cases, historically it has been recommended to continuously repeat or consistently continue antibiotic treatment for life. Although not clinically proven yet, what has been observed by diligent pet owners is that some are able to completely remove a SID/SIBO-prone dog from antibiotics through a methodical process of slowly reducing the antibiotic dose and interval while slowly introducing an increased inclusion of a safe, stable, and “agreeable” with the individual dog’s intestinal gut flora” pre and/or probiotic.
Prebiotics are non-digestible food components (dietary fiber) that are being fermented by intestinal bacteria. Slippery Elm is a prebiotic. This can lead to more normalization of the intestinal microbiota. In a recent study the use of fructooligosaccharides (FOS) in the diet showed a lasting advantageous effect. This syndrome is also a potential target for probiotic therapy but one must be careful when administering probiotics. Too much FOS can cause the opposite effect. Per Dr. Jorg Steiner of Texas A&M University “…unrealistic expectations have been replaced with well-defined requirements for probiotics and controlled studies of their beneficial effects. A probiotic must be efficacious. In order to be efficacious, the bacteria must reach the intestinal lumen. This requires that the bacterial species being used in the formulation are both acid- and bile-acid resistant. Also, the bacterial species of the probiotic preparation should adhere to the intestinal mucosa to prolong the time of interaction”.
If the dog displays any repeated signs of yellowish-coloring to the stools, loose stools, gelatinous stool coating, upchucking, vomiting with bile, flatulence, lack of appetite, stomach noises, low or low normal B12 then treat for possible secondary SID/SIBO. Previously we automatically treated with antibiotics, however, we now suggest to first try addressing with a “prebiotic” , many of us use Slippery Elm powder https://epi4dogs.com/slippery-elm/
Sometimes using a prebiotic, or even a prebiotic with a probiotic, is enough to get the SID under good control. If not, then we suggest using a course of Tylan (Tylosin Tartrate). https://epi4dogs.com/antibiotics/
Tylosin is preferred, Metronidazole may or may not work, and sometimes Amoxycillin is used if the Tylosin or Metro doesn’t work or doesn’t work well enough alone. Tylosin appears to work best for the majority of EPI dogs with SID/SIBO.
The current recommended Tylosin dosage has recently been changed to “25mg/kg BID with food for 6 weeks”, but some still prefer to administer twice daily [every 12 hours] with food:
30 lbs – 1/8 tsp 60lb – 1/4 tsp
90 lb – 3/8 tsp 120 lb – 1/2 tsp
A response to the antibiotics should be seen within 7 to 10 days- -if improvement is seen during this time period, indicating that SID/SIBO is present, the antibiotics should be continued for a total 6 weeks, or at the very least a minimum of 4 weeks.
If a positive response is not seen within 7-10 days, change the antibiotic. Most EPI dogs appear to respond best to Tylosin, but if not, switch to Metronidazole (or switch from Metro to Tylan). With exceptionally difficult SID/SIBO cases, historically it has been recommended to continuously repeat or consistently continue antibiotic treatment for life. Although not clinically proven yet, what has been observed by diligent pet owners is that some are able to completely remove a SID/SIBO-prone dog from antibiotics through a methodical process of slowly reducing the antibiotic dose and interval while slowly introducing an increased inclusion of a safe, stable, and “agreeable” with the individual dog’s intestinal gut flora” pre and/or probiotic.
Prebiotics are non-digestible food components (dietary fiber) that are being fermented by intestinal bacteria. Slippery Elm is a prebiotic. This can lead to more normalization of the intestinal microbiota. In a recent study the use of fructooligosaccharides (FOS) in the diet showed a lasting advantageous effect. This syndrome is also a potential target for probiotic therapy but one must be careful when administering probiotics. Too much FOS can cause the opposite effect. Per Dr. Jorg Steiner of Texas A&M University “…unrealistic expectations have been replaced with well-defined requirements for probiotics and controlled studies of their beneficial effects. A probiotic must be efficacious. In order to be efficacious, the bacteria must reach the intestinal lumen. This requires that the bacterial species being used in the formulation are both acid- and bile-acid resistant. Also, the bacterial species of the probiotic preparation should adhere to the intestinal mucosa to prolong the time of interaction”.
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........
- Madelon
- Staff
- Posts: 1317
- Location: Nashville, TN
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- State: Tennessee
- Pet name: Doc
Re: Poop Smells like Mustard?
Hi Mike. Just wanted to check in and see if the poop and/or smell has improved.
Madelon, owned by DOC. DOC dx EPI 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24. DOC taught me so much and together we battled and overcame EPI, food sensitivies, environmental allergies but we lost the cancer battle. DOC was dx with hemangiosarcoma 5/2022 and crossed the rainbow bridge July 24, 2022. He is and always will be the love of my life, my soulmate, my heart dog.
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