Peaches Journey

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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littlegirl_peaches
Member
Posts: 29
Country: United States
State: Utah
Pet name: Peaches
My name: Shasta

Re: Peaches Journey

Post by littlegirl_peaches » 12 Sep 2020, 22:27

Sportdog is apparently name of several products that do not include dogfood. I didn't check when I did a search where to buy local. *sigh* ok well, I can order from chewy or amazon. I just worry it's been in a hot warehouse and has rancid oil. I know that's my irrational association from the bag I just threw out that I had from when the pudding poop started. Likely nothing was wrong with it other than it happened to be here whwn the EPI kicked in and went all Las Vegas on little girl.

I'll order the sportdog in a bit. I just woke up from a nap .. yes lets' call it that ... we spent several exhausting hours at the park and little girl once again refused to leave .. I don't get it... Ok I do.. it's like having a human two year old. Covered in dirt...no caked in dirt-> hardly able to stay upright she's so tired but ran for the trees every time i even attempted to get near. So frustrating. Earlier she was like velcro... I had a glimmer ... 'oh we should go now' but she was having fun being goalie and finally able to fully play that I let her fool me "AGAIN" after really good returns on command she is like "sucka' and it's another hour before I am able to get another person to grab her collar for me.

The good... she slept most of the afternoon and is happily chewing on her fake bone now. All stomach issues seem to have left.

The Prilosec was a 10 mg so it should have been fine as she is 25ish pounds now. but as you, Olesia, suggested that was too much or she's allergic or something to it. No more for now or ever. I'll call the Vet on Monday when I know can get to the Vet that I am more comfortable with and we'll see about the b12 as they didn't email them as requested. I think I'll just have to insist it's always Norman that looks at her. I just didn't think it would be this much trouble. I mean the Vets. I am going to move up the spaying if she keeps putting on weight too. she'll be normal by first week October easily.

I did add salmon oil to the mix today but she hasn't pottied since lunch which is odd. So, either she's doing really well and absorbing 90 of what she ate or I'm in for a long night. I'm voting for she's doing really well. No double whammies here... I had to do something if I have to bathe her at all her skin is ashy. her coat is shiny but she's definitely in need of more oil in the skin. Taking her out now and maybe the last time tonight and it was normal! Its so hard to to be worried there is not more... but less= getting better at absorbing nutrients. I forget that sometimes. So just two tootsie rolls that were clay and like modeling clay that been worked on a bit so stiff but not dry/hard. All good.

Have a great Sunday everyone. Football is back :) Peaches and I will be cheering and relaxing to games tomorrow and we might go to the park early but we'll see how things go as I have some work to get done as well.
Herding is groovy,
Peaches
Heeler/Lab mix
DOB: 02/14/20 (6.5 months)
DX: 08/27/20 with EPI. Trypsin = 1.0
Weight PreDX: 28 lbs :: Current Weight: 24 lbs :: Height: 19 in. at shoulder :: Chest at widest: 20 in. :: Waist/Hip: 16 in.
Current Diet - RAW: Darwin's Natural Instinct
Waiting on Enzymes 09/01/20. Can't find local raw pancreas.

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Madelon
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Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
State: Tennessee
Pet name: Doc

Re: Peaches Journey

Post by Madelon » 12 Sep 2020, 22:49

I too use Sport Dog Food Elite - I order directly from the company - they have a rewards program and I get it faster ordering from them.

Have you tried the carrot trick to find out her transition time? If not, grate up or chop up some carrot and put it in her food - they don't digest carrot so look for it in the poop - make a note of the date/time you gave the carrot and the date/time (and it could be in more than one poop) that it shows up in the poop - this will tell you her transition time so when you make a change you'll know how long to wait to see how it affects the poop.
Madelon, owned by DOC. DOC dx EPI 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24. DOC taught me so much and together we battled and overcame EPI, food sensitivies, environmental allergies but we lost the cancer battle. DOC was dx with hemangiosarcoma 5/2022 and crossed the rainbow bridge July 24, 2022. He is and always will be the love of my life, my soulmate, my heart dog.

Tuckaboo Pam
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Posts: 1345
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: Peaches Journey

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 13 Sep 2020, 06:55

I agree with Madelon, whose signature gave me the idea to try this brand. Sport dog herding dogs formula seems to have been the final piece in Tucker's puzzle. Odering directly from the company is the way to go. I didn't know about the rewards program, though! If you have any questions, they will answer your email personally & promptly, too, plus they are very knowledgeable.---Pam & Tucker
Tucker was a shepherd/lab mix--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Took Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 1 1/2 cups/day, with a total of 4 cups of Fresh Pet. Stopped eating everything in sight, and went from 60 to 85 pounds! Tucker was my boyfriend, and my husband was OK with that. Tucker succumbed to hemangiosarcoma, but we cherished every day we had with that wonderful, beautiful boy. I will always, always miss my sweet big boy.

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Olesia711
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Posts: 3857
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Peaches Journey

Post by Olesia711 » 13 Sep 2020, 08:38

just a little tidbit about the carrot trick (to test a new food/ingredient agreeability) the results (poo) of the new ingredient can show up anywhere from 12 to 72 hours.....
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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Madelon
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Posts: 1317
Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
State: Tennessee
Pet name: Doc

Re: Peaches Journey

Post by Madelon » 13 Sep 2020, 13:42

Thanks Olesia - I forgot to mention how long it can take to find the carrot LOL
Madelon, owned by DOC. DOC dx EPI 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24. DOC taught me so much and together we battled and overcame EPI, food sensitivies, environmental allergies but we lost the cancer battle. DOC was dx with hemangiosarcoma 5/2022 and crossed the rainbow bridge July 24, 2022. He is and always will be the love of my life, my soulmate, my heart dog.

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Olesia711
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Posts: 3857
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Peaches Journey

Post by Olesia711 » 13 Sep 2020, 19:08

yeah, here at Epi4Dogs we noticed that it can take sometimes up to 3 days before those little carrot chunks showed up in the poo... and yet science kept saying that couldn't be and that LL dogs eliminate within 12 hours.... but then... research was done and published in 2017.... which we now have on our website
https://epi4dogs.com/poop-transit-times/
.... that it can take anywhere up to 72 hours! i was so tickled to learn that our observations were right on target after all :)
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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jilbert57
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Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Peaches Journey

Post by jilbert57 » 14 Sep 2020, 17:07

Sorry I am late, Kiya is a tri color aussie with pink and black gums😀
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

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littlegirl_peaches
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Posts: 29
Country: United States
State: Utah
Pet name: Peaches
My name: Shasta

Re: Peaches Journey

Post by littlegirl_peaches » 15 Sep 2020, 04:30

Yes, I know about carrots. I'll have to give her like a half one as the Darwin's alrready has carrots and other bits in it that go in and come out more or less undigested. granted much smaller than when I was free feeding her carrots in kongs etc.

I found another dry I really like but it's about half maybe of the full raw. I just need to make a decision. I think I'll try the small bag of Sportdog. and one of Ziwi which I might be able to get semi locally. I'll go shop hopping on the weekend. For now I resorted to FreshPet as her raw won't arrive until Wed. come cream cheese into it today to see how that might work. Seems fine. Sh was a little soft but nothing too bad.

Changing to all beef and lamb mixes to test to see if the birds are part of the issue as I suspect they are. She also got a new wardrobe as PetSmart had them clearanced at $5. Never had a pup that allowed it so it's a bit of fun for her ... ok for me :D probably more but she's a trooper. I might be knitting some scarves for her for the winter and possibly a santa hat.

Now on to the questions...

So I got the results back on Folate and B12. They are both normal. I am not exactly happy I don't have a number for the B12 but there's little I can do about it. I may look for another Vet to do the labs next time or ask more questions before we do it again.
I attached the results. I am guessing the b12 is high from the time I was giving her 2500 a day though I had stopped that about a week prior to the test. But I just realized she's getting that plus as the BioCase has 1000mcg per scoop and she gets that 3 times a day and at the time of the test she was getting it 4 times. I would have thought she'd pee more of it out but I don't suppose it hurts her. At least as long as she doesn't have SID/SIBO, right? I attached the vitamin too .. I only give her half. I finally got more salmon oil. It's been a couple of days now but I don't always remember to use it. Not sure she needs it 3 times a day and unless i'm blind there's no recommended dose. ? So i just do about a 1/2 TB it's a guesstimate as I don't want to stick up my measuring spoons. :)

I have been playing phone tag with the Vet about the tylosin. Should be able to speak with him tomorrow as he has no surgeries.
I don't get why the other Vet hasn't emailed with the info about dosing. I mean shouldn't they be able to tell me what 275mg = in a tsp ? Yes I have a scale but I'm not sure weighing powder like this will be easy.

Ok I need to get some sleep or attempt it. Headache .. weather must be moving in... Anyhow, can't wait to do photoshoot with halloween dress and toys. If I didn't mention she's doing much better still farty and burpy a bit but I just don't know if that's normalish I mean her poo's not goo and she acts like a toddler who needs a nap just like pre-EPI dx along with weight gain. If I didn't know she had EPI =, she'd be normal puppy fun. Ok sleeping at the weheel is not a good idea. Gotta get it while I can as little girl randomly barks at who knows up and takes me up. Another fun bit to put in her puppy book. No, I don't have one. Would been a cool idea ok off to bed. Have a great day everyone.
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Herding is groovy,
Peaches
Heeler/Lab mix
DOB: 02/14/20 (6.5 months)
DX: 08/27/20 with EPI. Trypsin = 1.0
Weight PreDX: 28 lbs :: Current Weight: 24 lbs :: Height: 19 in. at shoulder :: Chest at widest: 20 in. :: Waist/Hip: 16 in.
Current Diet - RAW: Darwin's Natural Instinct
Waiting on Enzymes 09/01/20. Can't find local raw pancreas.

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littlegirl_peaches
Member
Posts: 29
Country: United States
State: Utah
Pet name: Peaches
My name: Shasta

Re: Peaches Journey

Post by littlegirl_peaches » 15 Sep 2020, 04:37

jilbert57 wrote: 14 Sep 2020, 17:07 Sorry I am late, Kiya is a tri color aussie with pink and black gums😀
Adorable :) Yes, I figured out I was being paranoid about it .. one too many days in a row of weight loss and no help from said Vet or rather it felt that way at the time. Thanks for piping in.

To all the carroters I'll have to try that once I have some. I have to pick up the order after work! and We promised dogpark as we had football two days in a row and while Peaches is a fan she likes to be active more than watch.
Herding is groovy,
Peaches
Heeler/Lab mix
DOB: 02/14/20 (6.5 months)
DX: 08/27/20 with EPI. Trypsin = 1.0
Weight PreDX: 28 lbs :: Current Weight: 24 lbs :: Height: 19 in. at shoulder :: Chest at widest: 20 in. :: Waist/Hip: 16 in.
Current Diet - RAW: Darwin's Natural Instinct
Waiting on Enzymes 09/01/20. Can't find local raw pancreas.

User avatar
Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 3857
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Peaches Journey

Post by Olesia711 » 15 Sep 2020, 08:19

It is indeed fun to have a dog that doesn't mind their human putting silly clothes on them, eh?! out of my 3 dogs, the last one that is still with me, doesn't mind me putting ANY thing on her.... so sometimes i just have fun with it.

THanks for sharing those test results with us... yes the B12 levels are more than sufficient... over 1000... and yes, the B12 in the food probably skewed the numbers somewhat, but you can rest assured that her B12 is definitely upper-mid range (and more) that is needed for an EPI dog.

I agree with you on the salmon oil.... she probably doesn't need so much daily, as there is a lot included in the doggie vitamin you are giving her too... so 2 times a day, like you are doing sound perfect.

Regarding SID... if she has EPI, she has SID.... ALL dogs with EPI have SID in one degree or another. :( The tricky part is the decision to treat SID in an EPI dog.... if the poos are normal or there about.... then leave things as they are, (only fix if broken :) ) if you see repeated signs of SID.... "If the dog displays any repeated signs such as yellowish-coloring to the stools, loose stools, gelatinous stool coating, flatulence, lack of appetite, stomach noises, acid reflux, low or low normal B12 then treat for existing secondary SID/SIBO that is no longer in good control" then you treat SID.

The latest recommendation to treat SID is as follows:
Due to current August 2020 research on Metronidazole, it is no longer advised to use Metronidazole for SID. The new recommended treatment for SID is:

1. Prebiotics
2. If that doesn’t work try Probiotics with Prebiotics
3. If none of the above works, THEN try a course of Tylosin Tartrate (formerly called Tylan)
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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