Diagnosed with EPI today - Mouse

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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Jean
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Posts: 1707
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: Diagnosed with EPI today - Mouse

Post by Jean » 20 Sep 2020, 13:11

hi there and a huge welcome from the UK

Dear God, I am bewildered with this, and Thank God you were there

My Kara was 39 pounds at her worst at 14 months, old and a GSD so I know all about bones being everywhere

We fed her 5 times a day all enzymed, and an evening meal of scrambled eggs and mashed potato enzymed, to get her through the night

She had double the amount of kibble that the food instructions gave for the weight she SHOULD be, we always recommend 150% of the weight a dog should be over the day

I know nothing about diabetes and Olesia is the oracle

Feed on a flat glass pie dish, it keeps the muzzle out to a certain extent , and then maybe get a bowl of water with a ball floating in it, and he can bob for the ball, and he will clean his mouth out

ice cubes can always help with mouth washing and can be fun to chase

My Kara put weight on slowly, but consistently, so I know you will get there, and you have everyones love and support.

She ended up at 90 pounds and stabilised at that till we lost her last year

anyway I see you have a very good handle on this so you know where we are

jx
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

Tuckaboo Pam
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Posts: 1345
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: Diagnosed with EPI today - Mouse

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 20 Sep 2020, 13:55

Jill__Thank you. What is the formula, again, for initial feeding for weight gain? Is it 1 1/2 times what you would feed if they were at their ideal weight? I don't know why I've forgotten this. --P
Tucker was a shepherd/lab mix--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Took Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 1 1/2 cups/day, with a total of 4 cups of Fresh Pet. Stopped eating everything in sight, and went from 60 to 85 pounds! Tucker was my boyfriend, and my husband was OK with that. Tucker succumbed to hemangiosarcoma, but we cherished every day we had with that wonderful, beautiful boy. I will always, always miss my sweet big boy.

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Jean
Forum Director
Posts: 1707
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: Diagnosed with EPI today - Mouse

Post by Jean » 20 Sep 2020, 14:00

50% over and above what it says on the food bag for what they SHOULD weigh, over several meals
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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Madelon
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Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
State: Tennessee
Pet name: Doc

Re: Diagnosed with EPI today - Mouse

Post by Madelon » 20 Sep 2020, 15:36

Hi Masha - welcome to you and Mouse! Thank God you were there to save that sweet baby! You are in the best possible hands with Olesia as she's got the most knowledge when it comes to EPI and EPI with diabetes so I'm not going to muddy the waters by adding anything other than we are here to help you in any way we can. Hopefully with Olesia's guidance and your love Mouse will be quickly on his way to healing.
Madelon, owned by DOC. DOC dx EPI 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24. DOC taught me so much and together we battled and overcame EPI, food sensitivies, environmental allergies but we lost the cancer battle. DOC was dx with hemangiosarcoma 5/2022 and crossed the rainbow bridge July 24, 2022. He is and always will be the love of my life, my soulmate, my heart dog.

Charmkins4
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Posts: 4
Country: United States
State: California
Pet name: Mouse
My name: Masha

Re: Diagnosed with EPI today - Mouse

Post by Charmkins4 » 20 Sep 2020, 21:32

First, thank you so much everyone for all the help and advice. It's been almost 48 hours and we've already been seeing great signs of improvement (no accidents in the house for a whole day for example).

Also, for all the people who explained the meatball, it is genius!!! I give it to Mouse halfway through his meal and he LOVES it. Practically inhales it. So these are all positive steps.

Now for the new hurdle. Mouse is becoming a super picky eater. I mean, he went from inhaling everything we put in front of him to refusing to eat all dog food, canned or dry. It hurt my heart so much watching him hungry that I gave in and gave him cottage cheese, boiled chicken, and pumpkin. I figured in the beginning I'm just happy he's eating. But this isn't a long-term solution. I'm trying to figure out if it's just his appetite, or if it's just developed a love of human food. I was going to try going to the store and buying a few different cans for him to try, but I'm worried about that getting expensive, so any ideas or tips please let me know.

As to the questions about the specifics of Mouse's diagnosis. I don't have his exact TLI number. The critical care vet was moving quickly to get him enzymes and B12 as soon as possible. I'll get more specifics when I go to his follow-up with the internist. As for the diabetes, they have been basing everything off BG tests and a curve they did while he was in the hospital. Two different vets have gone back and forth about whether to do the fructosamine test or not. One thinks he doesn't have diabetes because every time he was administered insulin he "behaved like a non-diabetic". The second vet disagreed and sent me home with urine test strips to do daily and each day the measures on the test strip were at the maximum "2 or more level". Since his BG was so high the original plan was to restart Mouse on insulin at this followup.

THEN, something crazy happened today. Today is the first time since he's been with me that his test strip showed a huge reduction in BG to the "1/4" measure. Is it possible that treating the EPI could also fix the issues with hyperglycemia? Honestly, now I'm more confused than I was before.

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Olesia711
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Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Diagnosed with EPI today - Mouse

Post by Olesia711 » 20 Sep 2020, 22:15

THank you for your detailed response... and SOOOooo glad that Mouse is feeling much better!!!!

Okay to answer your question,,,, "No" EPI treatment will not correct a diabetes condition.
But if you changed foods or are feeding a food that is more agreeable with the diabetes condition, the BG will be more level .

NOw i have a question for you.... Are you saying that the BG has been mostly high (hyperglycemia),,,, but then he crashes with low blood sugar (Hypoglycemia) some of the times after receiving the insulin?
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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Buttermom1
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Country: United States
State: Texas

Re: Diagnosed with EPI today - Mouse

Post by Buttermom1 » 20 Sep 2020, 22:38

Hey Masha.... I first want to thank you for taking Mouse into your home and heart! Second, I a, so happy that you are getting assistance from Olesia. I can help you out with the EPI portion of small dog treatment, but the diabetes is something that I don’t know a lot about. You’re doing a fantastic job, so I just want to lend you support, and say welcome!
Susan

Charmkins4
Member
Posts: 4
Country: United States
State: California
Pet name: Mouse
My name: Masha

Re: Diagnosed with EPI today - Mouse

Post by Charmkins4 » 21 Sep 2020, 15:42

Hi Olesia,

Up until yesterday, he was always hyperglycemic (BG between 400 and 700) and went hypoglycemic EVERY time he received insulin. With vetsulin, he dropped to 96, with a different insulin (that I can't remember the name of) he dropped to 78.

So basically, he responds horribly to insulin which is why the two vets are arguing whether he is actually diabetic or not. One says no and thinks the hyperglycemia will disappear once he's absorbing his food properly (EPI). The other says yes, but thinks once he gains weight he will tolerate insulin better. I'm just stuck in between trying to figure out what to do next.

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