New member - new to EPI - questions!

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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Vanillanix
Member
Posts: 10
Location: Southern Maryland
Country: United States
State: Maryland
Pet name: Echo
My name: Anika

Enzymes!

Post by Vanillanix » 21 Sep 2020, 11:35

Hi everyone, new member here! My pup Echo was diagnosed in June, initially we thought it was an upset stomach from a new treat. Nope! The vet initially diagnosed her with SIBO from a fecal and prescribed Metro for a week which helped, but didn’t cure, she was then prescribed and additional week of it and put on a bland diet, and blood work for EPI. Sure enough... EPI it was. She’d lost 6lbs in as many weeks. I purchased PancrePlus and Cobalquin B12 from the vet in order to start treatment immediately, and her stools immediately improved and have been completely normal.

Which brings me to my post.... I’ll need to purchase more enzymes for her soon, and through research I found Enzymes Diane, but I’m completely confused as to what I need to order from them, the 6x or the 8x, or even what the difference is. So I need help with that first if anyone can help?

Secondly... out of no where, since yesterday she’s having some kind of relapse? We have religiously given her her enzymes, mixed in her dry food with some water and left to incubate for 20mins. I don’t know if she ate a crumb off the floor or something else random, but her stools are very soft and watery yesterday/today. They almost look exactly like her pre-enzyme stools, more grayish than yellow though. Could this be another case of SIBO... Should I take her to the vet now or wait a day or two? She doesn’t currently have/take any pre/probiotics.

Thanks in advance!
Adopted Echo at 8 weeks in January 2020 She's a mixed breed mutt - Embark DNA shows she's 22.7% German Shepherd, 22.1% Pit Bull, 15.9% Chow Chow, 11.3% Golden Retriever, 5.8% American Staff, 5.7% Boxer, 5.3% Samoyed and 11.2% Supermutt lol.

Diagnosed with EPI in June 2020. Has been thriving, thanks to the advice from this forum! ❤️

Tuckaboo Pam
Member
Posts: 1346
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: Enzymes!

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 21 Sep 2020, 19:15

Hi Anika, and welcome! Most of us buy 6X enzymes, because the ratio is 1 teaspoon to 1 cup of food, and that's super easy to remember. Someone else will answer your question about the soft stools, but off the top of my head I would ask, are you giving slippery elm or tylan, either of which may be indicated. I'll bow out, because that's the full extent of my experience, but I will reiterate GOOD MOVE, switching to Diane's. In addition to compassionate pricing, she is knowledgeable & prompt with her answers, should you have a question. ----Pam & Tucker
Tucker was a shepherd/lab mix--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Took Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 1 1/2 cups/day, with a total of 4 cups of Fresh Pet. Stopped eating everything in sight, and went from 60 to 85 pounds! Tucker was my boyfriend, and my husband was OK with that. Tucker succumbed to hemangiosarcoma, but we cherished every day we had with that wonderful, beautiful boy. I will always, always miss my sweet big boy.

User avatar
Vanillanix
Member
Posts: 10
Location: Southern Maryland
Country: United States
State: Maryland
Pet name: Echo
My name: Anika

Re: Enzymes!

Post by Vanillanix » 21 Sep 2020, 22:47

Thanks for the help! I’m not giving her slippery elm or Tylan yet - my understanding was that Tylan needs an RX? I’ve ordered some slippery elm!
Adopted Echo at 8 weeks in January 2020 She's a mixed breed mutt - Embark DNA shows she's 22.7% German Shepherd, 22.1% Pit Bull, 15.9% Chow Chow, 11.3% Golden Retriever, 5.8% American Staff, 5.7% Boxer, 5.3% Samoyed and 11.2% Supermutt lol.

Diagnosed with EPI in June 2020. Has been thriving, thanks to the advice from this forum! ❤️

User avatar
Vanillanix
Member
Posts: 10
Location: Southern Maryland
Country: United States
State: Maryland
Pet name: Echo
My name: Anika

New member questions! Enzymes, SIBO, etc..

Post by Vanillanix » 22 Sep 2020, 07:40

Vanillanix wrote: 21 Sep 2020, 11:35 Hi everyone, new member here! My pup Echo was diagnosed in June, initially we thought it was an upset stomach from a new treat. Nope! The vet initially diagnosed her with SIBO from a fecal and prescribed Metro for a week which helped, but didn’t cure, she was then prescribed and additional week of it and put on a bland diet, and blood work for EPI. Sure enough... EPI it was. She’d lost 6lbs in as many weeks. I purchased PancrePlus and Cobalquin B12 from the vet in order to start treatment immediately, and her stools immediately improved and have been completely normal.

Which brings me to my post.... I’ll need to purchase more enzymes for her soon, and through research I found Enzymes Diane, but I’m completely confused as to what I need to order from them, the 6x or the 8x, or even what the difference is. So I need help with that first if anyone can help?

Secondly... out of no where, since yesterday she’s having some kind of relapse? We have religiously given her her enzymes, mixed in her dry food with some water and left to incubate for 20mins. I don’t know if she ate a crumb off the floor or something else random, but her stools are very soft and watery yesterday/today. They almost look exactly like her pre-enzyme stools, more grayish than yellow though. Could this be another case of SIBO... Should I take her to the vet now or wait a day or two? She doesn’t currently have/take any pre/probiotics.

Thanks in advance!
Adopted Echo at 8 weeks in January 2020 She's a mixed breed mutt - Embark DNA shows she's 22.7% German Shepherd, 22.1% Pit Bull, 15.9% Chow Chow, 11.3% Golden Retriever, 5.8% American Staff, 5.7% Boxer, 5.3% Samoyed and 11.2% Supermutt lol.

Diagnosed with EPI in June 2020. Has been thriving, thanks to the advice from this forum! ❤️

User avatar
Jean
Forum Director
Posts: 1707
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: Enzymes!

Post by Jean » 22 Sep 2020, 11:44

a very warm welcome from uk

are you supplementing B12. are there any rumbling noises from the belly

keep a diary on everything you I think you can get Tylan from Chewy. we used it for 9 years with great success

Diana enzymes are widely used and most people.use the 6x

let us know

jeqn
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

User avatar
Vanillanix
Member
Posts: 10
Location: Southern Maryland
Country: United States
State: Maryland
Pet name: Echo
My name: Anika

Re: Enzymes!

Post by Vanillanix » 22 Sep 2020, 14:50

Hi Jean! I was actually born and raised in England, I moved to the US when I was 30!

Yes she’s been having daily B12 since about a week after her diagnosis. I haven’t specifically heard rumblings but she’s very gassy in the evenings.

I’m taking her to the vet shortly with a stool sample to test for SID/SIBO. She’s not herself and still having watery cow pat stools.
Adopted Echo at 8 weeks in January 2020 She's a mixed breed mutt - Embark DNA shows she's 22.7% German Shepherd, 22.1% Pit Bull, 15.9% Chow Chow, 11.3% Golden Retriever, 5.8% American Staff, 5.7% Boxer, 5.3% Samoyed and 11.2% Supermutt lol.

Diagnosed with EPI in June 2020. Has been thriving, thanks to the advice from this forum! ❤️

User avatar
Vanillanix
Member
Posts: 10
Location: Southern Maryland
Country: United States
State: Maryland
Pet name: Echo
My name: Anika

New member - new to EPI - questions!

Post by Vanillanix » 22 Sep 2020, 17:12

Hi all!

So as stated in my previous post, my pup was diagnosed with EPI in June and has been doing great until a couple of days ago when a bout of diarrhea started. I’ve just taken her out to the vet and she does have an overgrowth of bad bacteria so the vet has prescribed a week of Metronidazole, I mentioned Tylan to the vet and she said she only ever prescribed that for refractory diarrhea (whatever that is) and so rarely does that they don’t keep any on hand at the clinic. So, that’s that as far as the bad bacteria goes BUT she did also mention that I should consider putting my pup on a diet more suited for EPI! She turns one on Halloween so an adult brand of food will work with transition time for the remaining puppy food I have.

I know what works for one EPI dog is going to be different from another but what dry dog foods have y’all had success with? She’s currently on Blackwood puppy (chicken meal and brown rice).

Slippery elm... which brands are good and how much per lb of dog weight or cup of food do I give her?
Adopted Echo at 8 weeks in January 2020 She's a mixed breed mutt - Embark DNA shows she's 22.7% German Shepherd, 22.1% Pit Bull, 15.9% Chow Chow, 11.3% Golden Retriever, 5.8% American Staff, 5.7% Boxer, 5.3% Samoyed and 11.2% Supermutt lol.

Diagnosed with EPI in June 2020. Has been thriving, thanks to the advice from this forum! ❤️

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Madelon
Staff
Posts: 1317
Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
State: Tennessee
Pet name: Doc

Re: New member - new to EPI - questions!

Post by Madelon » 22 Sep 2020, 19:53

Hi Anika! I hope you don't mind but I merged your other topic/thread into this one so we have all of your information in one place - it just helps us to keep track of things and make better suggestions.

Welcome to our EPI family :) I have a few questions. You said your dog was diagnosed in June. You mentioned you're supplementing B12, how much and what kind? How much enzymes are you using and how are you preparing? What food are you currently feeding and how much? Sorry but it will help us make suggestions.

My first suggestion however is to NOT use Metronidazole. PLEASE first try Slippery Elm Bark Powder - new research has revealed that Metro can in some cases permanently alter the dog's gut bacteria in a bad way. Based on the most recent research the new recommendation when treating SID is to first try enzymes, food and B12, THEN if still seeing SID try Slippery Elm Bark Powder (it's a prebiotic) then after a week or so if still seeing SID try Proviable (it has a pre/probiotic) and THEN if still dealing with SID get a prescription for Tylan. here's the link https://www.wonderlabs.com/itemleft.php?itemnum=K97024 use the code "epi4dogs15" at checkout and get a 15% discount. Here's a link to the dosing information from our website https://epi4dogs.com/slippery-elm/

I understand your vet's reluctance to prescribe Tylan as like human doctors they do not have the time to keep up with the latest research which is one of the reasons why this organization was created. Please print and share any and all information from this website with your vet https://epi4dogs.com/sidsibo-management/.

As far as food, yes every EPI dogs is different - some need a little more fiber, some a little less, some need a tiny bit of grain and some can't tolerate it at all BUT what I will say is several of us have had good results with Sport Dog Food Elite as it has low fiber and no peas or legumes.

If you have your test results, please post the TLI, B12 and Folate scores so we have a reference point. It's overwhelming at times dealing with EPI, but these dogs are so special and your bond will be beyond anything you could imagine. We will be here by your side to help guide you through it so hang in there :)
Madelon, owned by DOC. DOC dx EPI 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24. DOC taught me so much and together we battled and overcame EPI, food sensitivies, environmental allergies but we lost the cancer battle. DOC was dx with hemangiosarcoma 5/2022 and crossed the rainbow bridge July 24, 2022. He is and always will be the love of my life, my soulmate, my heart dog.

User avatar
Vanillanix
Member
Posts: 10
Location: Southern Maryland
Country: United States
State: Maryland
Pet name: Echo
My name: Anika

Re: New member - new to EPI - questions!

Post by Vanillanix » 22 Sep 2020, 22:58

Hi there!

Thanks for merging my posts, much easier! I added some more information to my signature so it's there but i'll reply here too and answer your questions...

1. She gets 1 Cobalequin chewable daily (1000mcg)
2. I give her 1tsp of PancrePlus per cup of dry food (purchased more from Enzyme Diane) - I mix it with a little water and allow to incubate for 20mins.
3. I've gone back down to feeding her 3cups per day (she was on 4 cups up until last week to regain the weight lost from the initial EPI diagnosis). She currently is fed Blackwood Puppy Chicken Meal & Brown rice. The fiber content is 3% and it's pea free, I'm not sure about legumes.
4. With regards to her vet, it's a great office but I may have to speak to another vet office with regards to Tylan. I pressed the matter pretty hard with the vet today and I highly doubt she'll budge and prescribe Tylan.
5. I'll call the vet tomorrow and get the TLI, B12 and Folate scores - I don't see the results on any of the paperwork I have.

I'm in this for the long haul, I love this girl and want to see her thrive! She was doing SO well since the diagnosis - she gained her lost weight back and then some, her stools were normal and she'd stopped eating her food so fast. I've got to say though, all of this has been completely overwhelming and has driven my anxiety through the roof. :cry:
Adopted Echo at 8 weeks in January 2020 She's a mixed breed mutt - Embark DNA shows she's 22.7% German Shepherd, 22.1% Pit Bull, 15.9% Chow Chow, 11.3% Golden Retriever, 5.8% American Staff, 5.7% Boxer, 5.3% Samoyed and 11.2% Supermutt lol.

Diagnosed with EPI in June 2020. Has been thriving, thanks to the advice from this forum! ❤️

Tuckaboo Pam
Member
Posts: 1346
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: New member - new to EPI - questions!

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 24 Sep 2020, 14:07

Tucker THRIVES on Sport Dog Elite, buffalo & sweet potato. It has been the final piece (for now) to the puzzle of that boy I am so in love with. Hey! At the top of the forum page there is a tab about Metro you might want to read. ---Pam
Tucker was a shepherd/lab mix--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Took Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 1 1/2 cups/day, with a total of 4 cups of Fresh Pet. Stopped eating everything in sight, and went from 60 to 85 pounds! Tucker was my boyfriend, and my husband was OK with that. Tucker succumbed to hemangiosarcoma, but we cherished every day we had with that wonderful, beautiful boy. I will always, always miss my sweet big boy.

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