Enzymes help for puppy

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
User avatar
Madelon
Staff
Posts: 1317
Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
State: Tennessee
Pet name: Doc

Re: Enzymes help for puppy

Post by Madelon » 11 Sep 2018, 22:06

I let my vets know everything I do with my boy. When first dx - there are two vets in the practice - one had never treated an EPI dog but was the one that knew to test for it - the other had treated an EPI dog but several years ago - anyway they didn't think he needed B12 - his was 406 - after reading the information here I printed it off and took it to my vet and let them know I ordered the B12 pills - they said it was fine since he had no other medical conditions where too much B12 would be an issue. Since then they now understand how critical B12 is to EPI management. We work as partners with Doc's EPI - we discuss and talk about everything.

Please print off anything from our website and share with your vet. Our recommendations are back by research and years of living/managing EPI.
Madelon, owned by DOC. DOC dx EPI 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24. DOC taught me so much and together we battled and overcame EPI, food sensitivies, environmental allergies but we lost the cancer battle. DOC was dx with hemangiosarcoma 5/2022 and crossed the rainbow bridge July 24, 2022. He is and always will be the love of my life, my soulmate, my heart dog.

C.U.pup
Member
Posts: 27
Country: United Kingdom - Wales
Pet name: Dash
My name: Leonard

Re: Enzymes help for puppy

Post by C.U.pup » 12 Sep 2018, 14:32

Great thanks for that I'll get him in the bath a bit more often and get his bed in the wash more then hopefully it will help the situation
Wow doses he stink for a little Guy :mrgreen:
At least from what you're saying it will pass eventually

Definitely will get some things printed off and have a show his vet some articles off the website already there great been a big help when first trying to sort out his diagnosis will look into the slippery elm not sure whether to wait to see if the antibiotics sort him out again First and slightly confused was he suppose to be tested for a B12 thing to :shock: not something his as ever discussed ???

He's so tiny and a growing puppy just so hard juggling everything for him the vet said it's usually a condition in larger dog but he no thats small dog's breeds and can also have it
That's again

User avatar
Riley's Mom
Staff
Posts: 203
Country: United States
State: Virginia

Re: Enzymes help for puppy

Post by Riley's Mom » 13 Sep 2018, 00:54

Any dog breed from chihuahua to a great dane and everything in between can get EPI!
Over 80% of EPI dogs suffer from low B12 and must have supplementation for life. It is best, especially for a small dog, to keep levels at 600 or greater. Many times when the vet runs the TLI they also run B12 at the same time. Ask your vet if they did.
Elisabeth

Riley is a 10 year old Labradoodle. She was diagnosed with EPI in 2014.
She currently eats Taste of the Wild, I cup in the morning, 2 cups in the evening, each meal with 1 Wonderlabs B12 sprinkled over her dinner. Enzymes are EnzymeDiane, 1 tsp per cup of food, mixed in home made bone broth. No other supplements or meds at this time.
Riley currently weighs about 44 pounds, which is pretty heavy for her.

C.U.pup
Member
Posts: 27
Country: United Kingdom - Wales
Pet name: Dash
My name: Leonard

Re: Enzymes help for puppy

Post by C.U.pup » 13 Sep 2018, 05:00

Wow so there's a big percentage / chance that DASH could also have this 12 condition as well
will ring and check with his vet later fingers crossed no more testing
Is this a life-threatening condition not sure he's had any symptoms but not really sure what to look out for
Cheers.

User avatar
Riley's Mom
Staff
Posts: 203
Country: United States
State: Virginia

Re: Enzymes help for puppy

Post by Riley's Mom » 15 Sep 2018, 20:16

Low B12 can cause a multitude of things, some examples are: low energy, poor appetite, aggression, anxiety among others. Because these dogs have a malabsorption condition, they aren't able to process things as a normal dog would. Even with enzymes on board they typically require help with B12. If your vet didn't check it, you can ask for a test--it's a simple blood test.
I would encourage you to print up the info on B12 from this site if your vet is reluctant. You can give injections or B12 with intrinsic factor which most of us get from Wonderlabs. It's pretty inexpensive and effective.
Elisabeth

Riley is a 10 year old Labradoodle. She was diagnosed with EPI in 2014.
She currently eats Taste of the Wild, I cup in the morning, 2 cups in the evening, each meal with 1 Wonderlabs B12 sprinkled over her dinner. Enzymes are EnzymeDiane, 1 tsp per cup of food, mixed in home made bone broth. No other supplements or meds at this time.
Riley currently weighs about 44 pounds, which is pretty heavy for her.

C.U.pup
Member
Posts: 27
Country: United Kingdom - Wales
Pet name: Dash
My name: Leonard

Re: Enzymes help for puppy

Post by C.U.pup » 23 Sep 2018, 16:23

That's great thank you Dasg doesn't always have the normal energy of a pup his age but didn't realise it could be something else just thought perhaps because he had the bottom thing going on

Speak to his vet and he hasn't been tested :( so due to his age its highly unlikely that he will be deficient they said ? but they want to see how he goes over the next month then re-evaluate if I wish to ...

But on a brighter note he has finally moved off the 1.2 kg and gone up to 1.4 kg so really pleased been stuck on that wait for last few months :D
His poos are still not great but his vet wants to reevaluate him in a month unless he takes a dramatic nosedive as there still putting it down to is vac as I've not changed his food or altered is enzyme or steroids frustrating and all tge poops has made his anal glands flare up to poor little guy just one thing after another sometimes but super pumped on the way to change

User avatar
Madelon
Staff
Posts: 1317
Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
State: Tennessee
Pet name: Doc

Re: Enzymes help for puppy

Post by Madelon » 23 Sep 2018, 21:38

Glad you talked to the vet about the B12, but if I were you I would go ahead and insist that they test the B12 now - why wait for problems to arise or hinder his improvement? It's a relatively inexpensive and simple blood test and by testing now you will have a starting reference point. As mentioned before, low B12 can cause lots of problem and one of them being weight gain.

Keep us posted on how things progress.
Madelon, owned by DOC. DOC dx EPI 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24. DOC taught me so much and together we battled and overcame EPI, food sensitivies, environmental allergies but we lost the cancer battle. DOC was dx with hemangiosarcoma 5/2022 and crossed the rainbow bridge July 24, 2022. He is and always will be the love of my life, my soulmate, my heart dog.

C.U.pup
Member
Posts: 27
Country: United Kingdom - Wales
Pet name: Dash
My name: Leonard

Re: Enzymes help for puppy

Post by C.U.pup » 02 Oct 2018, 17:25

Finally managed to convince Dash vet to do the vit B test this morning so fingers crossed he will be fine and not need anything else .

He smelling a little fresher at last but his poops and wee still smells so bad like the powder an i doing something wrong :?:

Also can i give him some treats for training as he a young pup and need some encouragement at times so treat may differently help didn't know if there was a special brand type ???

User avatar
Patsy
Member
Posts: 266
Country: United Kingdom - England

Re: Enzymes help for puppy

Post by Patsy » 03 Oct 2018, 08:15

Hello from Yorkshire, sorry you’ve got problems. Have you told the breeder? Sometimes there is a genetic link, so it would be useful for them to to know, in case the litter mates are affected, so then the breeder should take sensible action. Were you covered by any insurance?
Epi is fairly unknown/undiagnosed in the Uk, and the vets fumble for information. Even now, after over ten years on this forum, I know folks are having to tell their vet what the treatment protocol should be. It makes me furious and sceptical of everything they say. Younger vets are often worse than the old school ones, who have wider experience of everything, and are not dictated by tests which can be misleading .egdid the dog need starving for 12 hours as for epi, or are they using the correct red B12. You have already come across the Tylan argument. Mine wouldn’t give me it either. However, yes they can use it, though you should sign a disclaimer as it is for agricultural use. This means it’s your responsibility.
Where about s are you? There are various excellent gastrointestinal specialists, who your vet could speak to. I feel that with a Maltese puppy, all the stops should be pulled out.
I used oxytetracycline, but tiny pups need caution!
Yes powdered enzymes stink, but Lypex granules don’t(be aware that the instructions on the box are wrong, so ask us!). Stinky poo could be the same , but also from the SID infection. My dog, farty Marti, would clear the room with toxic gas!
You’ve probably written it somewhere, but what food are you using?
I know it’s all bewildering, but the basics are enzymes, B12, antibiotics and the right food. Keep asking!
Springer spaniel Marti had Epi, PLE , MMM just to confuse me. She lived till 12yrs, chubby and happy despite eight years of epi.
Capsule enzymes suited her best. B12 supplements made her into a new dog!
After a cocker with PLN kidney disease, I now have two healthy rescues, a lively, suicidal , small ginger terrier, adopted with pneumonia, and gum disease needing nearly all his teeth out, and a fluffy grey toy poodle/terrier from Greece.

User avatar
Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 3858
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Enzymes help for puppy

Post by Olesia711 » 03 Oct 2018, 12:41

You can get Slippery Elm now from Wonderlabs
https://www.wonderlabs.com/itemleft.php?itemnum=K97024
... this is the same company the so many of us use the oral B12 product with great success.

I just received my bottle of SLippery Elm from Wonderlabs and OMG... the quality IMHO is far superior to what i used to purchase on Amazon....very pleased. The only thing is two things: (1) with Slippery Elm it is often better to you less than what is recommended- -if that doesn't work, then use the full doge. (2) FYI...our dosing instructions on the Slippery Elm page is more just a wee bit more defined.
1/8 tsp for dogs under 10lbs,
¼ tsp for dogs 10lbs to 30lbs,
½ tsp for dogs 30lbs to 80lbs,
3/4 tsp for dogs 80lbs to 100lbs,
1 tsp for dog 100/+lbs.

Also... i just read some research yesterday where they are now discovering that a lot of the prescription drugs that vets recommend as gastroprotectants.... are not as good as expected, some don't even work (but used on dogs cuz research said they worked on people) and the bigger story is thathey are now discovering is that some not only are causing problems but are not so safe for dogs afterall.... AND in this research they mention alternative methods to use as gastroprotectants, SLippery elm being one of the few :) Of course, more research needs to be done, but as an EPI community,,, we have multiple people with EPI dogs that can attest to the fact that Slippery Elm helped their dog. Of course it doesn't work all the time and in every case with SID.... but it sure works often enough that it is worth trying and the good ting is that it is cheap :)

AHhhhhhhhhhhhhh the stink...... yep your nose is telling you the truth... many, MANY dogs stink once they start the enzymes.... That is putrefaction... they think :)

The bad thing is that it indeed stinks... the good thing is that it usually goes away in time.... once all the facets of EPI is under good control.
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 374 guests