Overwhelmed by EPI diagnosis
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- Member
- Posts: 16
- Country: United States
- State: Pennsylvania
- Pet name: Beau
- My name: Andrea
Overwhelmed by EPI diagnosis
Hi friends
After a year of unimaginable torture and frustration, tons of tears, and even more diahrrea (not to mention we just hit the $15,000 mark, spent on vet bills/meds)...this past week resulted in a diagnosis of EPI from a TLI test.
We were prescribed pancreatic enzymes - I've tried every combination of food, amounts, etc. that I could imagine, and my pup still won't touch it. I'm not sure if it changes the taste of the food, but it surely changes the consistency, so I'm not sure why he is so turned off by it - since when given anything that doesn't have the enzymes, he inhales it, almost ravenous (has always been that way with food)
I am picking up an order of pig & beef pancreas this Wednesday, but my baby can't go without food and/or the enzymes that long. He has been suffering long enough as it is.
And suggestions would be welcome & grateful!!
After a year of unimaginable torture and frustration, tons of tears, and even more diahrrea (not to mention we just hit the $15,000 mark, spent on vet bills/meds)...this past week resulted in a diagnosis of EPI from a TLI test.
We were prescribed pancreatic enzymes - I've tried every combination of food, amounts, etc. that I could imagine, and my pup still won't touch it. I'm not sure if it changes the taste of the food, but it surely changes the consistency, so I'm not sure why he is so turned off by it - since when given anything that doesn't have the enzymes, he inhales it, almost ravenous (has always been that way with food)
I am picking up an order of pig & beef pancreas this Wednesday, but my baby can't go without food and/or the enzymes that long. He has been suffering long enough as it is.
And suggestions would be welcome & grateful!!
Beau'sMomma
- Montgomery
- Member
- Posts: 418
- Country: Canada
- Pet name: Montgomery (I'm a CAT!)
- My name: V
Re: Overwhelmed by EPI diagnosis
Your pharmacy should be able to get you empty gelatin capsules. You can get them in a variety of sizes, with the smaller numbers representing larger sizes (Montgomery takes a size 0 capsule, which is about as long as my thumb nail, for example). Wear latex gloves so that the oil on your hands doesn't degrade the capsule. Open the capsule, and holding the large end with a pair of tweezers, dip it into the enzymes until it is full, tamp it down, and keep going. When its packed full, dump it into a measuring spoon and see how much of your dog's dose the capsule holds. Give the dog the enzyme capsules just before each meal, with a generous amount of water after each capsule. Its fiddly at first, but with some practice, it isn't difficult. I stuff twenty eight capsules at a time and it just takes me a few tracks on a Melissa Etheridge record to get through them. I've been doing this for ages now and it works very well.
I hope this helps!
I hope this helps!
Montgomery was born 20 March 2012. He eats extra lean ground chicken, lean ground pork and lean ground beef completed with Alnutrin and freeze-dried chicken liver, with hard-cooked egg. He gets two size zero capsules of Enzyme Diane's enzymes at each of his six meals, and a size four capsule of Tylan three times a day. He's a fierce little Spitfire with a roaring Merlin engine.
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- Member
- Posts: 1346
- Country: United States
- State: Florida
- Pet name: Tucker
- My name: Pam H.
Re: Overwhelmed by EPI diagnosis
Andrea, we have all been where you are. How awful that it took so long to find out what was going on with Beau. Here is exactly what I do when prepping Tucker's food, and he eats it just fine. I'm sorry, I don't see whether you are doing tylan & B12, but if not, you'll get that advice, coming up. LOTS of good, good help to be found on this forum.
So, food prep---
---1 cup food needs 1 teaspoon of enzymes
---so, I put 1 1/2 teaspoons enzymes (tylan & B12) in Tucker's dish
---1 1/2 cup kibble
---1/4 cup room temp broth (I make turkey bone broth, and I can give you the recipe, but commercial broth of any kind should be fine)
most people just use water, but we are trying to mask the taste of the enzymes
---stir together & set a timer for 20-30 minutes
---I feed this to him twice a day
---if Beau still won't eat, try enticing with some meat, cottage cheese, yogurt, tuna, canned dog food, etc on top of the prepared kibble
In case you didn't know, you should be feeding him 150% of what you would feed him if he were at his ideal weight, and you should break it up into 3-4 meals
Good luck, and I hope this helps. Ask all your questions, nothing is insignificant while figuring this out. Beau will get better in time, and now you now know that what he has is manageable! It may take some tweaking, but you are now on the path to recovery. (Oh, and we'll help you find less expensive products than what your vet provides----way less). Take Care, and keep in touch---Pam & Tucker in Florida
OH!!! And if you can, please post the results of Beau's blood tests, too. Thanks!
So, food prep---
---1 cup food needs 1 teaspoon of enzymes
---so, I put 1 1/2 teaspoons enzymes (tylan & B12) in Tucker's dish
---1 1/2 cup kibble
---1/4 cup room temp broth (I make turkey bone broth, and I can give you the recipe, but commercial broth of any kind should be fine)
most people just use water, but we are trying to mask the taste of the enzymes
---stir together & set a timer for 20-30 minutes
---I feed this to him twice a day
---if Beau still won't eat, try enticing with some meat, cottage cheese, yogurt, tuna, canned dog food, etc on top of the prepared kibble
In case you didn't know, you should be feeding him 150% of what you would feed him if he were at his ideal weight, and you should break it up into 3-4 meals
Good luck, and I hope this helps. Ask all your questions, nothing is insignificant while figuring this out. Beau will get better in time, and now you now know that what he has is manageable! It may take some tweaking, but you are now on the path to recovery. (Oh, and we'll help you find less expensive products than what your vet provides----way less). Take Care, and keep in touch---Pam & Tucker in Florida
OH!!! And if you can, please post the results of Beau's blood tests, too. Thanks!
Tucker was a shepherd/lab mix--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Took Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 1 1/2 cups/day, with a total of 4 cups of Fresh Pet. Stopped eating everything in sight, and went from 60 to 85 pounds! Tucker was my boyfriend, and my husband was OK with that. Tucker succumbed to hemangiosarcoma, but we cherished every day we had with that wonderful, beautiful boy. I will always, always miss my sweet big boy.
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- Member
- Posts: 16
- Country: United States
- State: Pennsylvania
- Pet name: Beau
- My name: Andrea
Re: Overwhelmed by EPI diagnosis
I literally cried reading this, thank you so much for taking the time to respond. It means a lot and feels amazing to see the support on here!!
Beau'sMomma
Re: Overwhelmed by EPI diagnosis
Try using Creon capsules you can get them from Chemist Warehouse. Not expensive...you don't even need a prescription. I used them for years.... I gave my dog Creon 10,000 units (2) with 2 1/2 cups of dog food. She was a collie. She never had a problem with it and I didn't have to do anything but put them in my hand with a little water for her to lick them up. Or place them in her bowl with the dog food covering them... Never had a problem might help you with your dealings. DON'T GIVE UP .....
You can try using 1 Creon 10,000 and see how it goes with your dog. I don't know the size of your dog so one may help or you may need to use 2 like I did.
You can try using 1 Creon 10,000 and see how it goes with your dog. I don't know the size of your dog so one may help or you may need to use 2 like I did.
- Olesia711
- Founder & Research Director
- Posts: 3858
- Location: North Carolina
- Country: United States
- State: North Carolina
- Pet name: Izzy
- My name: olesia
Re: Overwhelmed by EPI diagnosis
I am so sorry you are struggling, getting your dog to eat food with the enzymes.
So far you have been given 3 really good solutions...... my recommendation would be to try the food "toppers" first.....
what you can do is mix the enzymes directly in the food and then jsut put an enticing food topper (something that has a strong scents usually works best) like kippers, or sardines, or parmesan cheese, or a tblspoon of stinky cat food, BBQ sauce,,,, etc.
Or if the above doesn't work... then prepare the food as your normally would and then only mix the enzymes in something outrageously strong flavored like sardines... put the sardine + enzyme mush (or whatever you use) on top of the regular food without mixing it in.... see if he'll eat it this way.
If the above doesn't work... putting the right amount of enzymes in an empty gel cap is the next thing i would try.
If all of the above doesn't work... THEN i would try CREON (this is a human drug that treats EI in people) it is the same stuff the dogs use only put together differently. Anyway... these are enteric coating little spheres that come in a capsule and work like a charm ut the ONLY reason why i list this last is because it is expensive..... but.... if nothing else works, then well worth the money!
So far you have been given 3 really good solutions...... my recommendation would be to try the food "toppers" first.....
what you can do is mix the enzymes directly in the food and then jsut put an enticing food topper (something that has a strong scents usually works best) like kippers, or sardines, or parmesan cheese, or a tblspoon of stinky cat food, BBQ sauce,,,, etc.
Or if the above doesn't work... then prepare the food as your normally would and then only mix the enzymes in something outrageously strong flavored like sardines... put the sardine + enzyme mush (or whatever you use) on top of the regular food without mixing it in.... see if he'll eat it this way.
If the above doesn't work... putting the right amount of enzymes in an empty gel cap is the next thing i would try.
If all of the above doesn't work... THEN i would try CREON (this is a human drug that treats EI in people) it is the same stuff the dogs use only put together differently. Anyway... these are enteric coating little spheres that come in a capsule and work like a charm ut the ONLY reason why i list this last is because it is expensive..... but.... if nothing else works, then well worth the money!
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........
- Madelon
- Staff
- Posts: 1317
- Location: Nashville, TN
- Country: United States
- State: Tennessee
- Pet name: Doc
Re: Overwhelmed by EPI diagnosis
Hi and welcome to our EPI family! I'm so sorry your pup is struggling with the enzymes. Have you checked to see if there are mouth sores? The enzymes are caustic and some dogs are extremely sensitive. If you're having good poos then I would try a few of our suggestions before switching enzymes: a few more suggestions:
feed on a flat plate so the muzzle is not down in a bowl; I mix the enzymes with water and dissolve them first, then add kibble; if there are mouth sores try putting kibbles in the water bowl after eating so your dog bobs for it thus rinsing the mouth; wipe the muzzle with a wet wash cloth
if all else fails what has worked in a few very sensitive cases - try grinding the kibble in a blender before mixing with the dissolved enzymes
Part of EPI is solving the mystery - figuring out what works best for your dog.
feed on a flat plate so the muzzle is not down in a bowl; I mix the enzymes with water and dissolve them first, then add kibble; if there are mouth sores try putting kibbles in the water bowl after eating so your dog bobs for it thus rinsing the mouth; wipe the muzzle with a wet wash cloth
if all else fails what has worked in a few very sensitive cases - try grinding the kibble in a blender before mixing with the dissolved enzymes
Part of EPI is solving the mystery - figuring out what works best for your dog.
Madelon, owned by DOC. DOC dx EPI 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24. DOC taught me so much and together we battled and overcame EPI, food sensitivies, environmental allergies but we lost the cancer battle. DOC was dx with hemangiosarcoma 5/2022 and crossed the rainbow bridge July 24, 2022. He is and always will be the love of my life, my soulmate, my heart dog.
- Olesia711
- Founder & Research Director
- Posts: 3858
- Location: North Carolina
- Country: United States
- State: North Carolina
- Pet name: Izzy
- My name: olesia
Re: Overwhelmed by EPI diagnosis
Good mention Madelon regarding possible mouth sores..... i didn't even think to mention that... and that always is a possibility!
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........
Re: Overwhelmed by EPI diagnosis
Our boy eats his kibbles with enzyme mixed in with water most of the time. Once in a while he would not want to finish it and I would have to feed him by hand (do it quick and wash your hands fast as it'll wreck your skin. Gloves didn't work as he won't go near the smell). What we've learned is to mix in a bit of wet canned food (he's on low fat diet, so the canned version of his food is more like a loaf) with water into the kibble. It masks the smell/flavor more and he finishes it every time. After that, I take a small teaspoon of canned food and mix with water. Then give that to him to wash it all down to avoid sores. I also use a wet paper towel to wipe his snout to make sure there are no residues on his face.
Each enzyme batch seems to differ slightly in odor/taste. The first batch I got from Diane didn't smell as strong as the latest batch but we've been lucky with Plutus being a Corgi simply eating most anything he can get into his mouth.
Good luck!
Each enzyme batch seems to differ slightly in odor/taste. The first batch I got from Diane didn't smell as strong as the latest batch but we've been lucky with Plutus being a Corgi simply eating most anything he can get into his mouth.
Good luck!
Re: Overwhelmed by EPI diagnosis
Hello and welcome! I know how hard it is when your dog hates the enzymes. We went through this with Kolby when he was first diagnosed. He developed mouth sores.....then, of course, he didn't want to eat the food with enzymes. One thing that helped was to use more water when dissolving the enzymes and to let them incubate longer. We were up to more than 45 minutes for a while. Eventually, he did eat and the sores went away. I don't know why some dogs get the sores.....they are just more sensitive, I guess.
Kolby lived to be just shy of 11 years old and passed in January, unrelated to EPI.
I know this is a frustrating time. The early stage is the hardest. Once you find the right combination, it will get better. Olesia, Madelon and Pam have given you excellent suggestions.
Hang in there.
Barb
Kolby lived to be just shy of 11 years old and passed in January, unrelated to EPI.
I know this is a frustrating time. The early stage is the hardest. Once you find the right combination, it will get better. Olesia, Madelon and Pam have given you excellent suggestions.
Hang in there.
Barb
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