Millie-Diagnosis Questions/Opinions Wanted!

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
alisa21chelle
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Posts: 13
Country: United States
State: Texas
Pet name: Millie

Millie-Diagnosis Questions/Opinions Wanted!

Post by alisa21chelle » 25 Nov 2020, 17:59

I have been caring for a Breeders 3 year old female dog. When she came to use she was under weight, suffering from hair loss, loose stools and was told she had EPI. I was given Pancreatic Enzyme Concentrate Powder to add to her meals and began researching EPI. I then requested her most recent lab results which she gave me but then admitted that she had a previous EPI dog and the dog I had was displaying the same symptoms. They did nothing but basic labs and not the test for EPI. The lab results don’t seem to fit what others are reporting. Can anyone explain or confirm these lab values might point to EPI. Thanks!
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Guardian Parent (rehabbing/nurse) to a beautiful 3 y/o female Charles King Cavalier. Owner/Breeder suspects EPI as of November 2020 and I am caring for her until weight increases & labs are drawn again.

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Madelon
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Re: Millie-Diagnosis Questions/Opinions Wanted!

Post by Madelon » 07 Dec 2020, 07:56

Hi and welcome to our group. First let me apologize for the lack of response to your post. I'm not sure how it got overlooked. I have sent the link to your post to our expert at interpreting blood tests, Olesia. Hopefully she'll be able to give you some insight as there is definitely some off numbers. As for indicating EPI, the only way to know if your dog has EPI is through the fasted blood cTLI test - it is a specific test and one that is not run with a normal blood panel like you posted. Did you notice any improvement in the poop when you started on the enzymes?
Madelon, owned by DOC. DOC dx EPI 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24. DOC taught me so much and together we battled and overcame EPI, food sensitivies, environmental allergies but we lost the cancer battle. DOC was dx with hemangiosarcoma 5/2022 and crossed the rainbow bridge July 24, 2022. He is and always will be the love of my life, my soulmate, my heart dog.

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Olesia711
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Location: North Carolina
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Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Millie-Diagnosis Questions/Opinions Wanted!

Post by Olesia711 » 07 Dec 2020, 08:45

Just by looking at the lab coupled with the EPI like symptoms, as Madelon stated, non of these test results can confirm /or not confirm EPI.... A specific TLI test needs to be done for that.

HOWEVER... based on the blood results..... one of the things that popped up as "possibilities" is IBD, or something triggering malabsorption.... which could or could not also be EPI and really needs to be TLI tested. My concern here is that with these labs and just an assumption that this is EPI could have dire consequences... for example.... EPI does NOT display with some of these blood test values, unless something else is going on.

THe most worrying thing is the possibility of anemia (and some anemia type situations are life threatening-like immune anemia )... also that there is inflammation going on.... it is also possible that this could have all originated from tick disease and then in turn triggered all of the above issues with malabsorption..... Because of the low HCT.... i would definitely have a long talk with the vet and do further testing ASAP.......
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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jilbert57
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Re: Millie-Diagnosis Questions/Opinions Wanted!

Post by jilbert57 » 07 Dec 2020, 08:54

Good morning . What jumps out at me is the low cholesterol and low amylase. These can be signs of a couple things, protein losing enteropathy being one. I have included a link to read but Madelon is right, Olesia knows as her dog had some of these same issues.

https://eclinpath.com/chemistry/energy- ... olesterol/

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

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Olesia711
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Posts: 3843
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Millie-Diagnosis Questions/Opinions Wanted!

Post by Olesia711 » 07 Dec 2020, 09:32

YES, PLE is another possibility......Thanks Jill!!!! As that is another malabsorption condition that needs immediate attention.
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

Barb
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Re: Millie-Diagnosis Questions/Opinions Wanted!

Post by Barb » 07 Dec 2020, 16:58

Good for you for inquiring into this pup's labs and trying to see what is going on with her. You mentioned another dog with EPI. Was that dog diagnosed with a cTLI test? I surely hope he/she is not being bred.

The pup in your care is very fortunate to be there. Let us know if she gets tested and the results.

Barb

alisa21chelle
Member
Posts: 13
Country: United States
State: Texas
Pet name: Millie

Re: Millie-Diagnosis Questions/Opinions Wanted!

Post by alisa21chelle » 07 Dec 2020, 21:03

:!:
Previous Dog with EPI was tested (cTLI) & diagnosed (male). He was no longer used by the breeder and “re-homed.” This is why she “assumed” Millie has EPI because same presenting symptoms??
I went to this breeders home prior to giving a deposit to be put on a waitlist for a CKC puppy and saw I saw Millie. She was skinny, with most of her hair missing and I just couldn’t stop thinking about her. I called the next day and asked if anyone had ever offered to “re-Hab” 😂 a dog while they are treated or recovered from an illness. She allowed Millie to come home to me and I started researching. Millie was sent with only pancreatic enzymes but I added several things after finding your website. She is now getting pre-probiotics, slippery elm bark and coconut oil. She has gone from 9.5 lbs to 13 lbs in the 3 weeks I have had her. Her stools look so much better (fecal score of 2-3). She is so happy and loving life inside my warm loving home (Extra doses of TLC). Breeder will have her labs re-tested but anticipates not being able to breed her any longer. I just don’t have the authority to take her to a vet myself so needed opinions and/or thoughts. I would definitely have my vet take a look at her if she does try to “re-home” her but until then My hands are tied.
*Any suggestions on what more I could do for her or suggestions for me?
Guardian Parent (rehabbing/nurse) to a beautiful 3 y/o female Charles King Cavalier. Owner/Breeder suspects EPI as of November 2020 and I am caring for her until weight increases & labs are drawn again.

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jilbert57
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Re: Millie-Diagnosis Questions/Opinions Wanted!

Post by jilbert57 » 07 Dec 2020, 21:14

Maybe you could suggest to the breeder to have the cTli test run then that would confirm or rule out EPI.
Did you post what Millie is eating?

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

alisa21chelle
Member
Posts: 13
Country: United States
State: Texas
Pet name: Millie

Re: Millie-Diagnosis Questions/Opinions Wanted!

Post by alisa21chelle » 07 Dec 2020, 21:52

Breeder sent Fromm dry kibbles & Stella's Solutions Skin & Coat Boost Dinner Morsels Freeze-Dried Raw.
Guardian Parent (rehabbing/nurse) to a beautiful 3 y/o female Charles King Cavalier. Owner/Breeder suspects EPI as of November 2020 and I am caring for her until weight increases & labs are drawn again.

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jilbert57
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Posts: 2081
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Millie-Diagnosis Questions/Opinions Wanted!

Post by jilbert57 » 07 Dec 2020, 22:52

Is the Fromm kibble grain free too? Thanks

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

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