Pankaid causes odour

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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AnnC
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Posts: 3
Country: Canada
Pet name: Cariadh
My name: Ann

Pankaid causes odour

Post by AnnC » 30 Nov 2020, 00:19

Hello, new member here...
Our lovely Westie, Cariadh has been affected by EPI for about 4 years. She takes 1 1/4 tsp. Pankaid each of her two meals per day.
Morning is a dehydrated as raw - fish based grain free kibble and evening is raw turkey with a couple of tablespoons of mashed veggies.
My issue is that she really smells - sour/vomit/musk.
Earlier in the year Pankaid was not available and we had to give her human medicine. She was ok with the medicine, but I had to give her ALOT. The smell went away and came back with a vengeance when we got Pankaid back again. She takes a monthly shot of B12.
Any suggestions for this problem. Is there another form of enzyme I could give her that might not cause her to smell. She is the sweetest, most loving dog.

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Olesia711
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Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
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My name: olesia

Re: Pankaid causes odour

Post by Olesia711 » 30 Nov 2020, 12:00

My understanding is that what you are smelling is putrefation " the process of decay or rotting in a body or other organic matter." translation in EPI language..... SID. Unfortunately all dogs with EPI have SID.... until we figure out how to eradicate it, the best we can do for now is keep it under good control.

Why the human version of enzymes worked better... i honestly don't know why.... was it CREON? Maybe more of the actual product actually made it to the gut, since CREON is enteric coated. i am jsut guessing here, so this may or may not be a good answer.

What i can suggest though is to make sure your dog is receiving a pre/Probiotic... because with EPI dogs the problem is that they do NOT have enough bacteria in their gut AND they also don't have enough of a variety of bacteria in their gut. If you have to give an antibiotic, then give TYlan / Tylosin Tartrate.... DO OT give Medtronidazole as Metro will kill bacteria and some of the bacteria it kills will never and can never be replenished in the gut no matter how many probiotics you give the dog.

Unfortuantely.... because every dog's gut flora is unique... the probiotics on the market today are a one-size fit's all..... so it is kind of a shot in the dark which on your dog will actually benefit from. At this current time, we are suggesting Proviable by NutraMax.... or at least until they can come up with targeted probiotics more suited to addressing specific health conditions....rather than just a one-size fits all.
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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Montgomery
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Posts: 418
Country: Canada
Pet name: Montgomery (I'm a CAT!)
My name: V

Re: Pankaid causes odour

Post by Montgomery » 01 Dec 2020, 19:14

The Pank-Aid pong...Oh...Like having a massive tom cat in the house. It was on Montgomery's breath, and because he is fastidious in his hygiene, all over his person. When he went to the bathroom, the odour permeated the house until it was bagged and removed. It wasn't always like that. He'd been on Pank-Aid for quite some time with no problems. It was unavailable for a bit, and when it came back, there was a marked difference in the appearance and the odour of the product. His veterinarian wasn't concerned about it, but WE were. When it became unavailable again, we switched him to Enzyme Diane, and the odour disappeared almost immediately. He has also put on weight and his coat is beautiful. His breath smells like sweet cat breath and his fur like clean cat fur.
I'll never forget the stench the Pank-Aid caused. He's only six and a half pounds, but his body odour was elephantine. I feel your pain.
Montgomery was born 20 March 2012. He eats extra lean ground chicken, lean ground pork and lean ground beef completed with Alnutrin and freeze-dried chicken liver, with hard-cooked egg. He gets two size zero capsules of Enzyme Diane's enzymes at each of his six meals, and a size four capsule of Tylan three times a day. He's a fierce little Spitfire with a roaring Merlin engine.

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Madelon
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Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
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Pet name: Doc

Re: Pankaid causes odour

Post by Madelon » 01 Dec 2020, 21:10

Hi Ann - welcome to our EPI family. I was one of the fortunate ones and never really had an issue with the odor - except the occasional fart bombs LOL although his breath was horrid - not that I let him get that close - when he was eating his poop prior to being diagnosed LOL. Hopefully with Olesia's advice and maybe some time the odor will subside.
Madelon, owned by DOC. DOC dx EPI 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24. DOC taught me so much and together we battled and overcame EPI, food sensitivies, environmental allergies but we lost the cancer battle. DOC was dx with hemangiosarcoma 5/2022 and crossed the rainbow bridge July 24, 2022. He is and always will be the love of my life, my soulmate, my heart dog.

AnnC
Member
Posts: 3
Country: Canada
Pet name: Cariadh
My name: Ann

Re: Pankaid causes odour

Post by AnnC » 01 Dec 2020, 23:32

Thanks everyone. I will try the pre/probiotic and see if it helps.

I will report back and let you all know.

AC

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Olesia711
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Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
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Re: Pankaid causes odour

Post by Olesia711 » 02 Dec 2020, 10:57

years ago, to get rid of (hopefully) the "stench" .....some of the things that were suggested were to change food, add B12, change enzymes, start Tylan antibiotic..... in the end, it was realized that it was the results of SID percolating ..... and these all are things that we now know that when treating an EI dog, very often the EPI protocol needs to be tweaked to find the right balance for your individual EPI dog... so then we started just recommending TYlan..... BUT then, more recently, they have discovered that yes, Tylan helps SID... BUT..... the longer lasting resolution is pre+probiotics (if you can happen upon the right probiotic) since what they also recently discovered is that EPI dogs not only do not have enough bacteria in their gut but they also do not have enough of a variety of bacteria in their gut.....

My take on everything is i am looking forward to the day when even better technology is available and more research is done so that they hopefully will finally figure what causes SID and how to prevent it to begin with!!!!!
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

AnnC
Member
Posts: 3
Country: Canada
Pet name: Cariadh
My name: Ann

Re: Pankaid causes odour

Post by AnnC » 02 Jan 2021, 13:44

Hey everyone! I want to report back that the probiotic worked a charm. I ordered doggie probiotics from a local company, but they were out of stock, so I went to my local health food store and got some HMF Superpowder. She no longer smells. A lot of people might say that I shouldn’t give human probiotic to my dog, but a long time ago a vet suggested this for a different dog (also a Westie) who was experiencing some health issues and it worked great for him too. So happy and thank you for the great advice.

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Jean
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Location: South Liverpool
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Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: Pankaid causes odour

Post by Jean » 02 Jan 2021, 13:54

I love your dogs name,, where does it come from ?

I am thinking Ireland

Good news about the smell

Jx
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

Tuckaboo Pam
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Posts: 1345
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Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: Pankaid causes odour

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 02 Jan 2021, 15:33

Jean, my guess is Gaelic or Celtic, too, just for fun. I'm so glad you asked that question, because I hadn't even noticed the dog's name. Now my question is----How do you pronounce it???---Pam
Tucker was a shepherd/lab mix--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Took Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 1 1/2 cups/day, with a total of 4 cups of Fresh Pet. Stopped eating everything in sight, and went from 60 to 85 pounds! Tucker was my boyfriend, and my husband was OK with that. Tucker succumbed to hemangiosarcoma, but we cherished every day we had with that wonderful, beautiful boy. I will always, always miss my sweet big boy.

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Madelon
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Posts: 1317
Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
State: Tennessee
Pet name: Doc

Re: Pankaid causes odour

Post by Madelon » 04 Jan 2021, 21:07

Ann - so glad to hear the stink is gone and the probiotics worked!! Now you can safely snuggle your pup again LOL :)
Madelon, owned by DOC. DOC dx EPI 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24. DOC taught me so much and together we battled and overcame EPI, food sensitivies, environmental allergies but we lost the cancer battle. DOC was dx with hemangiosarcoma 5/2022 and crossed the rainbow bridge July 24, 2022. He is and always will be the love of my life, my soulmate, my heart dog.

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