disturbed nights

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
MelC
Member
Posts: 22
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Meg
My name: Mel

disturbed nights

Post by MelC » 01 Dec 2020, 05:00

Hello all

thanks again for the support provided..

Meg does seem to be improving, her weight is slowly gaining and since I got the slippery elm as advised by you, she has not been sick which is great.

Her poos are less in volume and less frequent but still quite soft, any suggestions on that would be great.

She still wakes up in the night to go to the toilet, is this normal for EPI dogs and something we will have to accept or should this stop if her treatment is sorted.

any thoughts/advice would again be much appreciated.

thanks
Mel

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jilbert57
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Posts: 2090
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: disturbed nights

Post by jilbert57 » 01 Dec 2020, 08:58

Good morning Mel,

There is a period after starting the enzymes where the fur kids have increased thirst hence increased urination. Until their body gets adjusted it seems to be this way.

I am sorry you are having to be awakened. A lot of pups seem to wet their kennel when previously they were house trained.

If worried you could rule out a UTI but just know this behavior is normal for a period of time for a lot.

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

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Madelon
Staff
Posts: 1317
Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
State: Tennessee
Pet name: Doc

Re: disturbed nights

Post by Madelon » 01 Dec 2020, 21:47

Hi Mel. Jill gave you good information as a lot of us have noticed in the beginning our pups having to potty more because they are drinking more possibly due to the enzymes but it typically works itself out quickly. However, a possible urine sample/trip to the vet to rule out a UTI is probably a good idea.

As for the poop - can you tell us what enzymes and food you are using and if you're supplementing B12? That would help us be able to give better suggestions.
Madelon, owned by DOC. DOC dx EPI 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24. DOC taught me so much and together we battled and overcame EPI, food sensitivies, environmental allergies but we lost the cancer battle. DOC was dx with hemangiosarcoma 5/2022 and crossed the rainbow bridge July 24, 2022. He is and always will be the love of my life, my soulmate, my heart dog.

MelC
Member
Posts: 22
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Meg
My name: Mel

Re: disturbed nights

Post by MelC » 02 Dec 2020, 03:49

Thanks for advice.
She often needs to go out for a poo and a wee at night.
she is not on B12 as the vet didn't think she needed it, but I'm not sure.

we are using Lypex enymes and also giving her some fresh pancreas.
we are using grain free kibble mixed with some kefir.

she is also having slippery elm.

thanks all again

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Olesia711
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Posts: 3857
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: disturbed nights

Post by Olesia711 » 02 Dec 2020, 11:42

try increasing the Lypex dose by a little bit.... and observe to see if it helps.

If it does, that usually indicates that something in the diet you are feeding is not exactly optimal..... but..... in the big picture..... sometimes you can just give a pinch more enzymes and that is the best solution, and yet other times, what would be best is to try to find a food that better agrees with your pup. THis can be a long drawn out process, but well worth it, if you can find a better food.... and you start with keeping excellent notes of exactly how much and all the ingredients that your dog is consuming (food, supplements, brand name, amounts, etc)..... if you start trying other foods, and recording the results, you will start to notice products/ingredients that appear to help or hinder your dog... and that is how you start to hone in on what works.

Also... ask your vet for the actual B12 levels from the test.... as many vets "think" the B12 level is fine is it is in the normal range, but with EPI,,, it really needs to be in the upper normal range in order for the B12 level to be sufficient or else it needs to be supplemented.
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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Jean
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Posts: 1707
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: disturbed nights

Post by Jean » 03 Dec 2020, 04:04

Good Morning Mel and welcome from a UK person from good old Liverpool, where are you ?

Lypex is the difficult one to work out

if you would like to talk I am here, 2 years with Lypex and gave up

my tel no I will send by PM as well

0151 726 1468

Jx
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

MelC
Member
Posts: 22
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Meg
My name: Mel

Re: disturbed nights

Post by MelC » 03 Dec 2020, 12:24

Thank you again for your ongoing support. I will definitely follow up about the B12. i may get some anyway as cant imagine it will hurt.
and up her enzymes.

you say other enzymes may be better Jean, can you advise which

many thanks

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Jean
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Posts: 1707
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: disturbed nights

Post by Jean » 04 Dec 2020, 05:48

Hi Mel

this is a potted history of my life with EPI

My Kara was diagnosed at 14 months old with EPI having had maybe a month of cow pat motions and almost hysterical feeding

The vets gave us Lypex which you may know is enteric coated microsperes enclosed in a capsule, this means that they are scattered onto the food mixed in and served, you do not give the capsule, the enteric means that they are protected from the juices of the digestive system until they get to the gut where the proper digestion takes place

she didnt improve, and we took her to Liverpool University Small Animal hospital on the Wirral here, we met up with a very senior vet in GI and a researcher in EPI , we were part of a scheme to check out Lypex and we talked about feed etc

She had to have a check up weekly, and b12 injections every other day for two weeks, then weekly

so she was on 5 meals a day with 5 Lypex per meal, as you can imagine this didnt last long, she was insured but it was crazy

The vet said if she needed 5 then she had to have 5, by this point she had hit 39 pounds in weight, and as a female shepherd she was a mess

I was convinced we would lose her my own vet said "not on my watch we wont"

she was described as massively emaciated, and we had to put a t shirt on het to go out, people threatened me with RSPCA

anyway later that year we joined EPI4DOGS, and learned a LOT

We asked could she have Tylan , the University said definitely, and so we started on that, she started to improve slowly on grain free food, and SLOWLY went up to 60 pounds

by this point she was having three Lypex per meal, we never got below that amount with any success

My friend trialled Panzym, which is a powder, her dog started to improve dramatically, so we started, and she improved by leaps and bounds

so we transitioned , we gave her

https://epi4dogs.com/epi-quick-guides-outside-usa/

scroll down

1/4 teaspoon per 100 grams kibble, which was mixed a little with cat food, and then grain free wet food, only a tablespoon a meal

she went up to 90 pounds and stabilised for 6 1/2 years at that weight

I personally prefer powder as it is so much easier to control, the Microspheres are difficult

most of us over here changed to Panzym, its easy to buy on line

And Tylan, she had for life twice daily with her meals as per the doseage chart, 12 hours ish apart

https://epi4dogs.com/antibiotics/

scroll down

you can only get this via the vets over here

she had a minute maintenance dose for life , maybe 1/16th t spoon

we used b12 capsules from Chemeyes daily and a monthly b12 injection from the vets

What were her results of Cobalamin (b12) from the vets in numbers, they need to be up in the 600's

sorry for the description , but it gives you an idea

As previously said if you want to talk I am here, once they stabilise, they wont need to go out during the night, My girl had projectile pooing, it just flew out of her, but it stopped after we got her stable

it was dreadful at the beginning and I will never forget the telephone calls I had from people I now call VERY close friends, and the support of EPI4DOGS

sorry I was late to this post, I have been in hospital with spinal surgery, now getting there, and hopefull getting another dog

Anyway good luck Mel

jx
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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Jean
Forum Director
Posts: 1707
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: disturbed nights

Post by Jean » 04 Dec 2020, 13:45

and where are you ?
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

MelC
Member
Posts: 22
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Meg
My name: Mel

Re: disturbed nights

Post by MelC » 05 Dec 2020, 06:26

Thank you so much for sharing your personal journey and helpful information.

and thank you so much for inviting me to call you. I will experiment with the advice given and leave you alone to recuperate but it's lovely to know that you are there.

many thanks
Mel

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