Recent News regarding 'Grain-Free Diet with Heart Disease and Lectin'

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OKToki
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Recent News regarding 'Grain-Free Diet with Heart Disease and Lectin'

Post by OKToki » 17 Aug 2018, 10:53

The news regarding 'grain-free diet may cause heart issue' goes viral. I watched a video on FB yesterday hosted by Dr. Karen Becker and Steven Gundry. When they talk about Lectins that from legumes, they mentioned it may cause leaky gut and damage digest system. It's hard for me not to link my pup's EPI with grain-free food together. :|

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/24/heal ... sease.html
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/dietary-lectins

My dog was diagnosed with EPI Apr this year at 42lb after lost 10 pounds in few months. I bought DianeEnzyme and some other supplements recommended like Slippery Elm, B12. Starting from eating 2cups*3 times a day, she gained 10 pounds in the first month. After the situation is stabled, I moved her to half raw half kibble(kibble in the morning with kefir and raw at night), she is now 60lbs+, a normal weight for her breed and age.

After reading the news about the news, it's hard to not relate two together. My dog is on grain-free kibble most of her life. I used to think peas in kibble are better than potato or rice............. now I seriously consider removing all kibbles from her food.........

*I want to thank all members on this forum. I have never heard about EPI before and this forum helped me/pup so much in this journey.

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jilbert57
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Re: Recent News regarding 'Grain-Free Diet with Heart Disease and Lectin'

Post by jilbert57 » 17 Aug 2018, 11:54

Glad to hear you found what works for your pup. Thanks for the update. Maybe a candidate for the Chunky Monkey Club!
My name is Jill and I live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. I have two dogs: Kiya is an aussie/blue heeler and is 12 yrs young. TJ is a 3 year old Jack Russell. They keep me on my toes.
Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.
6/1999 - 8/2014

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Olesia711
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Re: Recent News regarding 'Grain-Free Diet with Heart Disease and Lectin'

Post by Olesia711 » 17 Aug 2018, 12:51

Thank you SO much for your post along with the two links - - it allows much needed discussion, as i am sure, many are still worried about this.......especially with their EPI dogs and the recommendation to feed food with little or no grain in it to start with until the dog is stable and then try grain food if you want..........

I have tried to address things by key topics that i hope helps others that may be concerned...

PEAS
Peas have clinically been proven not to be the best for our EPI dogs..... there is research on this that i have had on this website for a couple of years from performed by Dr. Mosseler/Hannover UNiv in Germany who worked with EPI mini-pigs and cystic fibrosis.... however even when clinically proven peas cause the most problems for EPI dogs vs. other starches/fiber..... that still does not mean every single EPI dog cannot tolerate peas.... as we can attest to this from over 10 years of 24/7 data. But because we do know too many peas cause an upset in too many of our pups.... we strongly suggest to avoid too many peas in any of our EPI dogs diet until the dog is really stable and then (only if you want to) try other foods (including peas, rice, etc) to see what/how much they can tolerate, if any. Most people, once the dog is stable don't like to rock the boat.... i am sure you know what i mean :).

LECTINS
Regarding the lectins causing an issue..... that all makes sense, except for the fact that, as they did mention in this article, you can remove virtually all the lectin toxicity by cooking..... and you have to consume large amounts.... so this doesn't really apply either.

The fact that they are also saying that this may drive gut permeability and trigger an autoimmune disease.... our EPI dogs already have the "autoimmune" condition first and THEN we suggest low fiber content food found in the grain free section due to the fact that grains can inhibit the efficacy of the enzymes... which are needed by the EPI dogs to live..

HEART PROBLEMS
Regarding the heart problems that is all over the news now. I urge you to read the post we have here regarding that information :
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=62&start=10&hilit=S ... 96455769b4

in more relevant detail and how, sadly, so many details of this has not been fully shared with the public and then how the public takes sound-bites and further scares the public... sometimes with some warrant, but more often needlessly.

Just a FYI we can also attest to over 10 years of data with well over 5,000 EPI dog cases (who usually are on grain-free food) that i can only recall at the most, maybe 5 or less cases of heart problems. And i have no idea what triggeed these heart problems .. genetics, or some other health condition or what.....

LEAKY GUT
Although i can easily see how some might think that there is a connection with our EPI pups and Leaky Gut, per various internet drs/vets.....( i too wondered years ago if tnhis was a possibility) ... HOWEVER.......... research has recently been done at TAMU with EPI dogs and SID (small intestinal dysbiosis) formerly called SIBO.... that it has nothing to do with leaky gut syndrome.... but rather they now know that all EPI dogs have SID, even when we do not see any SID signs..... what they have discovered is that the gut flora of an EPI dog is really messed up- -more so than IBD dogs, and more so than any other dog with any other gastrointestinal condition. Yep... our dogs are pretty special and in a class all by themselves!!

EPI dogs do not have enough bacteria and they do not have enough of a variety of bacteria to name a few things wrong with their gut..... this has nothing to do with peas or leaky gut, etc..... ...... the problem is that these reports is that they are generalizing......they are lumping all dogs together.... WELL... EPI dogs have a health concern that can be impacted with grain. The fact that their gut flora is different, the fact that they HAVE to be on enzymes with every piece of food that passes their lips, the fact that grain can inhibit the enzymatic activity anywhere from 0% to 50% depending on the individual EPI dog.... the fact that our dogs NEED enzymes to live. When you look at the whole picture automatically avoiding all grain food should be at the bottom of consideration with an EPI dog- -but maybe what each of us should do is do a better job of researching the components of any commercial dog food we are feeding our EPI pups AND we should also be taking these news reports and doing our own research for more details to see what really might be going on and then make an educated decision.... to the best of our ability with the data we have for now.

KIBBLE
IMHO i am with you 110% regarding kibble..... again after being excessively immersed in this dog business for well over 10 years.... i have seen some commercial dog foods help some dogs, especially when they were sick, but i have also seen many commercial dog foods actually make many, many dogs sick...and even cause death. I am all for home-feeding if you can... at least that way you KNOW what your dog is getting, or at least you have a better chance of knowing what your dog is getting by preparing it yourself. Nothing is 100% fool proof.....But i also realize, that some folks are just not in a position to home feed their dogs.... so they do the best they can with commercial foods. So we all do the very best that we can......
Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Doing great 12+ years later! Once stable at 3+ months, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each cup of food, but as she aged- -had to go back 1 tsp enzymes per cup of food. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil / fish oil daily .... until she developed Diabetes and she now cannot tolerate higher fat foods. Currently feed an 80% home-made diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, 1/3 of a raw egg, fat free cottage cheese, fish oil+vitamins and bone meal with 20% Annamaet Lean & Grain Free kibble. This combo has regulated her Diabetes (takes Vetsulin) and EPI and is very well managed. In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. This is when we discovered that she also developed Diabetes & Low Thyroid. Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the generosity of folks on Epi4dogs! Izzy continues to wake up every day full of joy. I am not a vet. All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal experiences, observations, information gleaned from EPI researchers & pet parents alike, and EPI research. Please share with your vet everything we suggest.

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Olesia711
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Location: North Carolina
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Re: Recent News regarding 'Grain-Free Diet with Heart Disease and Lectin'

Post by Olesia711 » 17 Aug 2018, 12:54

Gosh YES.... thanks for mentioning that Jill...

"OKtoki" You are MORE than welcome to have your pup join the Chunky Monkey Club :)
https://epi4dogs.com/chunky-monkey-club/

You did a great job of managing your pup's EPI and getting the weight back on.
Feel free to email to me: olesia.kennedy @gmail.com your pups pics and a little paragraph about the EPI journey.
Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Doing great 12+ years later! Once stable at 3+ months, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each cup of food, but as she aged- -had to go back 1 tsp enzymes per cup of food. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil / fish oil daily .... until she developed Diabetes and she now cannot tolerate higher fat foods. Currently feed an 80% home-made diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, 1/3 of a raw egg, fat free cottage cheese, fish oil+vitamins and bone meal with 20% Annamaet Lean & Grain Free kibble. This combo has regulated her Diabetes (takes Vetsulin) and EPI and is very well managed. In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. This is when we discovered that she also developed Diabetes & Low Thyroid. Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the generosity of folks on Epi4dogs! Izzy continues to wake up every day full of joy. I am not a vet. All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal experiences, observations, information gleaned from EPI researchers & pet parents alike, and EPI research. Please share with your vet everything we suggest.

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Madelon
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Re: Recent News regarding 'Grain-Free Diet with Heart Disease and Lectin'

Post by Madelon » 17 Aug 2018, 18:54

Thanks Olesia for clarifying things. I had a miniature pincher with congestive heart disease - he was on kibble that had grain and he did not have EPI. My current EPI dog was on a kibble that had grain prior to developing EPI - he was tested at 3mos old and was negative for EPI but was tested again at 13mos and tested positive - it takes time for the pancreas to atrophy. In my non-medical opinion, I personally believe they are born with EPI but something else "triggers" it which causes the pancreas to atrophy.

Great job on figuring out what works best for your EPI dog and getting to be a Chunky Monkey!!! whoop whoop
MADELON and Doc. DX EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
Test Results: (1st) 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; (2nd) 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; (3rd) 10/2015 TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4. Prior to DX: May 2014 (2mos) - DX coccidia/bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Dx SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May 2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop. Regimen: 4 cups Sport Dog Food Elite Herding - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 1/2tsp Slippery Elm 2xday; Multivitamin; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Salmon Oil

OKToki
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State: Oklahoma

Re: Recent News regarding 'Grain-Free Diet with Heart Disease and Lectin'

Post by OKToki » 18 Aug 2018, 23:42

Thanks Jill and Olesia, we would love to join the club. :D


Olesia, Thank you so much for such detailed information. It's really nice to know some information that is actually based on research.

I think what makes me or some concerned is not only the news but also confusing label of commercial dry food. It has protein/fiber/fat but I don't know how much protein is from meat and how much protein is from pea or other resource. And like me, most people may find it's hard to know if all the supplement in the dry food could be absorbed by pups without med knowledge.

I add enzyme to raw and kibble for my pup....based poop chart :D ....raw seems being digested better. It does take more time to prepare though but worth it.

----------------------
Before found this website, I didn't know what's going wrong with my pup when she ate so MUCH but still hungry to the point where she ate her own poop, dirt and grass. I took her to the vet and was told she is skinny but nothing went wrong. I tried rotating the food and added more homemade treats. Nothing worked till I found this website and learned about EPI. I printed out the EPI infor from this website and REQUEST the vet to do epi test for my pup.....It's a long journey and I am grateful for the help from this website. After getting back to her normal weight, she doesn't beg for treat and actually very picky about her treats, is more happy.confident and active.

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Olesia711
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Posts: 890
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy

Re: Recent News regarding 'Grain-Free Diet with Heart Disease and Lectin'

Post by Olesia711 » 19 Aug 2018, 15:32

That is an excellent point about what % of the protein listed in commercial food products are from meat/fish and how much is from something like peas, etc....... maybe if enough people complained or asked this... maybe someday the dog food industry will further clarify the nutritional value of their products.

Raw and or home cooked very often tend to leave less poop on the ground and our understanding is that more is being absorbed vs. commercial food filled with a lot of fillers. :(
Of course, on the flip side, like i mentioned earlier, some of these "commerical" foods actually help dogs that have certain health conditions.... but in so many other situations, it doesn't.... and For example, even some of the commercial foods designed for specific health issues don't work as well as home-prepared............(IMHO like diabetes food that i can personally attest to)

As more and more veterinarian research is done, hopefully we have more answers to many of our questions.

You can read about the research on peas/EPI with Dr. Mossler on the fiber page: https://epi4dogs.com/fiber-in-the-diet/
Starch Origin and Thermal Processing Affect Starch Digestion in a Minipig Model of Pancreatic Exocrine Insufficiency
ARTICLE in GASTROENTEROLOGY RESEARCH AND PRACTICE 2015:1-7 · DECEMBER 2014

This research was performed by Dr. Anne Mosseler of the University of Veterinary Medicine, Hannover, Germany, The Institute of Animal Nutrition.

Regarding the Chunky MOnkey Club, just email me some of your favorite pictures along with a little paragraph about your pup. To get an idea of what to write.... check out the other Chunky Monkey members:
https://epi4dogs.com/chunky-monkey-club/
Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Doing great 12+ years later! Once stable at 3+ months, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each cup of food, but as she aged- -had to go back 1 tsp enzymes per cup of food. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil / fish oil daily .... until she developed Diabetes and she now cannot tolerate higher fat foods. Currently feed an 80% home-made diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, 1/3 of a raw egg, fat free cottage cheese, fish oil+vitamins and bone meal with 20% Annamaet Lean & Grain Free kibble. This combo has regulated her Diabetes (takes Vetsulin) and EPI and is very well managed. In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. This is when we discovered that she also developed Diabetes & Low Thyroid. Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the generosity of folks on Epi4dogs! Izzy continues to wake up every day full of joy. I am not a vet. All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal experiences, observations, information gleaned from EPI researchers & pet parents alike, and EPI research. Please share with your vet everything we suggest.

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Riley's Mom
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State: Virginia

Re: Recent News regarding 'Grain-Free Diet with Heart Disease and Lectin'

Post by Riley's Mom » 20 Aug 2018, 22:04

Just to add my two cents, my EPI girl was on a diet that included grains before diagnosis. I only changed her diet after we got the EPI diagnosis. So in our case, the EPI would not have been triggered by grain free......
Elisabeth

Riley is a 10 year old Labradoodle. She was diagnosed with EPI in 2014.
She currently eats Taste of the Wild, I cup in the morning, 2 cups in the evening, each meal with 1 Wonderlabs B12 sprinkled over her dinner. Enzymes are EnzymeDiane, 1 tsp per cup of food, mixed in home made bone broth. No other supplements or meds at this time.
Riley currently weighs about 44 pounds, which is pretty heavy for her.

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Olesia711
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Posts: 890
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy

Re: Recent News regarding 'Grain-Free Diet with Heart Disease and Lectin'

Post by Olesia711 » 21 Aug 2018, 10:31

Excellent point..... many (and probably most) of our EPI dogs were diagnosed 1st with EPI and only afterwards placed on foods low in fiber (grain-free labeled) .
Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Doing great 12+ years later! Once stable at 3+ months, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each cup of food, but as she aged- -had to go back 1 tsp enzymes per cup of food. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil / fish oil daily .... until she developed Diabetes and she now cannot tolerate higher fat foods. Currently feed an 80% home-made diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, 1/3 of a raw egg, fat free cottage cheese, fish oil+vitamins and bone meal with 20% Annamaet Lean & Grain Free kibble. This combo has regulated her Diabetes (takes Vetsulin) and EPI and is very well managed. In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. This is when we discovered that she also developed Diabetes & Low Thyroid. Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the generosity of folks on Epi4dogs! Izzy continues to wake up every day full of joy. I am not a vet. All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal experiences, observations, information gleaned from EPI researchers & pet parents alike, and EPI research. Please share with your vet everything we suggest.

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