I need help! GSD diagnosis

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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jilbert57
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Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: I need help! GSD diagnosis

Post by jilbert57 » 07 Jul 2022, 11:34

Thanks now I see them. Can you see undigested food in there anywhere?
When was the last time your pup had routine blood work? Can you post results?
Thanks
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 6 and Sadie is 8months.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

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Olesia711
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Location: North Carolina
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Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: I need help! GSD diagnosis

Post by Olesia711 » 07 Jul 2022, 11:38

Hi Paul and thanks for telling us about your situation.

This may or may not be EPI, but the fact that so far anti-diarrhea meds have done nothing IMHO warrants running the cTLI test....
May i ask why is he having a colonoscopy ? Or did you mean an endoscopic surgery to determine if this is possible IBD?

Endoscopic surgery is the only way to accurately determine IBD (as far as i know) but it is invasive... as it is a surgery. BUt it is a harsh way to determine if the dog has EPI.... whereas the gold-standard to test for EPI is a simple blood test. WHen in doubt of what might be going on, what we typically recommend is doing the least non-invasive procedure first, which would be the cTLI blood test, and if not EPI.... THEN either do the hydrolyzed foods trials to see if that rectifies the situation and if so, that "usually" indicates that some sort of food sensitivity is going on and possibly IBD... but if you need actual confirmation that this might be IBD, then the only way to confirm as stated above is with an endoscopic surgery.

Just wanted to give you a little background of how this is typically approached.

Also.... if you want to try something....to see if this "might" be EPI.... is to give you dogs some actual pancreatic enzymes...ASAP (before the surgery next week!!!) and if the poos start to firm up..... i would consider running the simple cTLI blood test FIRST before doing an invasive endoscopy. Trying actual enzymes first and if they work is not 100% guarantee that this is EPI.... but it is an indication that your dog should be tested for it............

I couldn't see the attachments..... can you please email them to me at : olesia.kennedy@gmail.com and i can then post them for you here.
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

Psphinx81
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Posts: 18
Country: United States
State: Texas
Pet name: Axle
My name: Paul

Re: I need help! GSD diagnosis

Post by Psphinx81 » 07 Jul 2022, 11:55

jilbert57 wrote: 07 Jul 2022, 11:34 Thanks now I see them. Can you see undigested food in there anywhere?
When was the last time your pup had routine blood work? Can you post results?
Thanks
It’s been awhile. I’m taking him tomorrow morning for blood work.

When I give him white rice there is some undigested rice in there but he’s not a big fan of the white rice haha

Psphinx81
Member
Posts: 18
Country: United States
State: Texas
Pet name: Axle
My name: Paul

Re: I need help! GSD diagnosis

Post by Psphinx81 » 07 Jul 2022, 12:00

Olesia711 wrote: 07 Jul 2022, 11:38 Hi Paul and thanks for telling us about your situation.

This may or may not be EPI, but the fact that so far anti-diarrhea meds have done nothing IMHO warrants running the cTLI test....
May i ask why is he having a colonoscopy ? Or did you mean an endoscopic surgery to determine if this is possible IBD?

Endoscopic surgery is the only way to accurately determine IBD (as far as i know) but it is invasive... as it is a surgery. BUt it is a harsh way to determine if the dog has EPI.... whereas the gold-standard to test for EPI is a simple blood test. WHen in doubt of what might be going on, what we typically recommend is doing the least non-invasive procedure first, which would be the cTLI blood test, and if not EPI.... THEN either do the hydrolyzed foods trials to see if that rectifies the situation and if so, that "usually" indicates that some sort of food sensitivity is going on and possibly IBD... but if you need actual confirmation that this might be IBD, then the only way to confirm as stated above is with an endoscopic surgery.

Just wanted to give you a little background of how this is typically approached.

Also.... if you want to try something....to see if this "might" be EPI.... is to give you dogs some actual pancreatic enzymes...ASAP (before the surgery next week!!!) and if the poos start to firm up..... i would consider running the simple cTLI blood test FIRST before doing an invasive endoscopy. Trying actual enzymes first and if they work is not 100% guarantee that this is EPI.... but it is an indication that your dog should be tested for it............

I couldn't see the attachments..... can you please email them to me at : olesia.kennedy@gmail.com and i can then post them for you here.
I call it a colonoscopy but I believe it’s an endoscopy. It’s been a reoccurring issue where he will have bouts with bloody stool then it goes away, but he has never had diarrhea for this long. It last usually 2 days, we’re now on day 4 which today it started to be bloody.

He’s been on a hydrolized dog food for awhile now.

I have blood work gettting done tomorrow on him but they have to send it out to test the ctli.

Where can I get those enzymes, anyplace locally? And which ones?

Thank you for all the help

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Olesia711
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Posts: 2585
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: I need help! GSD diagnosis

Post by Olesia711 » 07 Jul 2022, 13:16

ahh... so it is an endoscopy. In that case, although you may end up doing an endoscopy after this... definitely get the cTLI blood test done first to positively confirm or rule out EPI..... then you can or won't have to proceed with the endoscopy.

SO.... if i understand this correctly.. the hydrolyzed food is not working either? Hmmmmmmm..... how many brands of hydroyzed food has your vet had you try.... sometimes you have to keep trying different brands until one works. We favor Royal Canin "Ultamino" hydrolyzed food... although there are no guarantees that this will work for your dog, it is jsut that it seems to have a better batting avg than the other hydrolzyed foods.

SOOOOOo.... since you are having the blood drawn for a TLI.... be sure to fast your dog (no food) for 12 hours prior to the blood test being done.... AND... if you can afford it, ask your vet to also draw blood for a Cobalamin (B12) blood test... cause if this is EPI.. then you will have to have the B12 tested too and better to have it all done at once.... besides, even if not EPI and is IBD, you will still want to know about the B12 levels. ANY condition that interferes with digestion / nutrient absorption can mess up the B12 levels and then no matter how properly you treat things, nothing will ever get fully better unless the B12 is optimal too.

Of course this may be simple colitis which requires an antibiotic. after they draw the blood for the TLI.... ask the vet if they think this is a possibility and would they/should they offer an antibiotic, and if not... ask why not

Regarding the doggie enzymes.... if your pharmacist doesn't have 4x porcine pancreatin.... then go to any pet store and ask for digestive enzymes, take a picture of the products and ingredients and text me (919-302-9892) and i will check it out and tell you which one to get. The good thing about giving enzymes is that if this is EPI, it will not interfere with the TLI blood test.... but then again,.. you really can't feed your dog any food (water is okay) anyway for 12 hours prior to the blood being drawn...... so i guess you don't have to worry about giving enzymes before the test which isn't a worry anyway.

Hope this helps. and plz forgive any of my typos.........
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

Psphinx81
Member
Posts: 18
Country: United States
State: Texas
Pet name: Axle
My name: Paul

Re: I need help! GSD diagnosis

Post by Psphinx81 » 07 Jul 2022, 13:33

Olesia711 wrote: 07 Jul 2022, 13:16 ahh... so it is an endoscopy. In that case, although you may end up doing an endoscopy after this... definitely get the cTLI blood test done first to positively confirm or rule out EPI..... then you can or won't have to proceed with the endoscopy.

SO.... if i understand this correctly.. the hydrolyzed food is not working either? Hmmmmmmm..... how many brands of hydroyzed food has your vet had you try.... sometimes you have to keep trying different brands until one works. We favor Royal Canin "Ultamino" hydrolyzed food... although there are no guarantees that this will work for your dog, it is jsut that it seems to have a better batting avg than the other hydrolzyed foods.

SOOOOOo.... since you are having the blood drawn for a TLI.... be sure to fast your dog (no food) for 12 hours prior to the blood test being done.... AND... if you can afford it, ask your vet to also draw blood for a Cobalamin (B12) blood test... cause if this is EPI.. then you will have to have the B12 tested too and better to have it all done at once.... besides, even if not EPI and is IBD, you will still want to know about the B12 levels. ANY condition that interferes with digestion / nutrient absorption can mess up the B12 levels and then no matter how properly you treat things, nothing will ever get fully better unless the B12 is optimal too.

Of course this may be simple colitis which requires an antibiotic. after they draw the blood for the TLI.... ask the vet if they think this is a possibility and would they/should they offer an antibiotic, and if not... ask why not

Regarding the doggie enzymes.... if your pharmacist doesn't have 4x porcine pancreatin.... then go to any pet store and ask for digestive enzymes, take a picture of the products and ingredients and text me (919-302-9892) and i will check it out and tell you which one to get. The good thing about giving enzymes is that if this is EPI, it will not interfere with the TLI blood test.... but then again,.. you really can't feed your dog any food (water is okay) anyway for 12 hours prior to the blood being drawn...... so i guess you don't have to worry about giving enzymes before the test which isn't a worry anyway.

Hope this helps. and plz forgive any of my typos.........
After digging through his paperwork I found last year on 3/3/21 my current vet did test for TLI, PLI, B12, and folate. It was the last time he had a bloody stool issue. So he’s been good for over a year until this past week. We found out that he was B12 deficient through this and have him on wonderlabs B12 daily. I’m going to see if they can get me those results.

Should I have him tested again for this just to be sure?

As far as dog food, he’s on purina hydrolyzed. We tried royal canine and it didn’t agree with him. He hasn’t had any issues with the purina until now

Psphinx81
Member
Posts: 18
Country: United States
State: Texas
Pet name: Axle
My name: Paul

Re: I need help! GSD diagnosis

Post by Psphinx81 » 07 Jul 2022, 14:56

I was able to get the results from his blood draw on 3/3/21.

Attached below
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jilbert57
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Re: I need help! GSD diagnosis

Post by jilbert57 » 07 Jul 2022, 15:06

So March of 2021 the Tli was 5 which is in the tweener area and by now could be lower. Also the B12 was 333 and we recommend to keep it above 600. Extra B12 will be excreted in the urine so when you get the Wonderlabs please start them. Thanks for posting.

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 6 and Sadie is 8months.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

Psphinx81
Member
Posts: 18
Country: United States
State: Texas
Pet name: Axle
My name: Paul

Re: I need help! GSD diagnosis

Post by Psphinx81 » 07 Jul 2022, 15:38

jilbert57 wrote: 07 Jul 2022, 15:06 So March of 2021 the Tli was 5 which is in the tweener area and by now could be lower. Also the B12 was 333 and we recommend to keep it above 600. Extra B12 will be excreted in the urine so when you get the Wonderlabs please start them. Thanks for posting.

Jill
I’m having the Same panel tested again next week, so that will help a lot to see what his results are.

He’s been on the wonderlabs b12 for over a year, so I hope to see an improvement in his b12 results

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Olesia711
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Posts: 2585
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: I need help! GSD diagnosis

Post by Olesia711 » 07 Jul 2022, 16:18

hi Paul,

You are probably tired of getting so many emails from me privately.... so sorry... but glad you found these TLI & B12 test results and very glad you pointed out that they were as of last March.

Do get the TLI and B12 done again.
And as we discussed privately, go ahead and get the one product that Petsmart carries for Digestive enzymes, double the dose.. and inthe meantime, order the proper enzymes from EnzymeDiane... the small package....for most likely relief and testing to see if this most likely is EPI in the making or full blown EPI. I too hope the WOnderlabs has done it's job and brought the B12 up.

Remember/ no food for 12 hours prior to the blood tests being done.

Hope we covered everything.

Keep us posted
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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