A really outlandish question

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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ericjohnson
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A really outlandish question

Post by ericjohnson » 05 Oct 2018, 13:25

This is a stab in the dark.

Daisy has been away at a pro trainer since June. Her weight was stable and the epi was under control.

I picked her up for a vacation at home while the pro was going to be away. That was on 9/29.

When we got home, I immediately recognized that her weight was down and the poop was not normal. The pro had commented that her marking was down. Don't need to go into all the retails of advanced retriever training but what it boiled down to, when the object to be retrieved didn't break the horizon, she didn't seem to see it. She'd still go and most times would hunt until she found it but clearly her visual acuity was reduced compared to when the object broke the horizon.

So, we had her eyes examined as she was due for a CERF/OFA exam anyway. Nothing was found.

The question is, is there anything about epi that would reduce vision?

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Olesia711
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Re: A really outlandish question

Post by Olesia711 » 05 Oct 2018, 18:40

So sorry to hear that this is happening......

As far as we know EPI does not have any impact on vision.....HOWEVER..... weight loss and vision problems.... first thing i would do is have your vet check for diabetes............

I hope your vet can figure out what is going on and that whatever it is is fixable....Please keep us posted!
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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Kodis Mom
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Re: A really outlandish question

Post by Kodis Mom » 05 Oct 2018, 19:27

No question is outlandish...but I have nothing to add. I will be following. Good luck .
Kodi
B. 8/19/2010 Diagnosed at 11 months.
Kodi is now on Natures Logic turkey and/or pork kibble, 2 cups with 2 teaspoons of enzymes, 1/8 teaspoon of ground coriander, 1/16 teaspoon of cinnamon and ground fennel seed (for tummy upsets) twice a day, plus one one B12 capsule from Wonderlabs. She has been very stable and on occasion needs a dose ofTylan.
She is our second GSD with EPI. It was not so scary this time ! And thank goodness for epi4dogs.com ! 💝 Kodi passed on August 25, 2023 just after her 13th birthday.💝 Forever grateful to Olesia and epi4dogs. She live a long and adventurous life with EPI.

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Madelon
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Re: A really outlandish question

Post by Madelon » 05 Oct 2018, 21:45

All questions are good questions. I'm so sorry you're going through this but highly recommend talking to your vet about diabetes as Olesia mentioned. We have a tendency to think everything is related to the EPI but they get other dog diseases/conditions as well.
Madelon, owned by DOC. DOC dx EPI 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24. DOC taught me so much and together we battled and overcame EPI, food sensitivies, environmental allergies but we lost the cancer battle. DOC was dx with hemangiosarcoma 5/2022 and crossed the rainbow bridge July 24, 2022. He is and always will be the love of my life, my soulmate, my heart dog.

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Jean
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Re: A really outlandish question

Post by Jean » 06 Oct 2018, 05:03

a question not asked is an oportunity lost

we have a staff member, Fiona, who's dog is having sight issues, but I dont think its related, but then, its possible

so the vets think everything is ok, maybe your pup just doesnt like the programme, or is not suitable, are you intending to show her etc.

but you need to sort out the weight issue

my advice is to go back to basics and keep a journal, did the trainer follow all of your instructions on food and enzymes, how much weight loss is there

jx
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

ericjohnson
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Country: United States
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Re: A really outlandish question

Post by ericjohnson » 06 Oct 2018, 10:37

I've given instructions to the trainer and feel she has followed them. I just don't think she or I were aware of the heat and exercise issue. She probably needs a boost in her caloric intake and were investigating how to do this. WE can't just incfrease the amount of food as that would merely increase the amount of poop.

As for the sight issue, there is nothing this dog likes better than birds so it's doubtful that motivation is the issue. I didn't think epi and sight could be related but had to ask since both are in the same dog.

Thanks.

Eric

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Jean
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Re: A really outlandish question

Post by Jean » 06 Oct 2018, 11:08

Its imossible to say with any assurance that EPI and sight issues are related without research results, and I am not sure there are any specific ones

If only they could talk !

my girl was totally movement motivated, sadly she has DM now, so, she still wants to do things but can't, it certainly is possible that calorie intake and more exercise has caused weight loss, so I am wondering if Olesia has any thoughts on adding caloriesand, or, more food , and poo output, I will ask the question, I have never had the issue, Kara has always been high drive but has eaten what we gave her,

I wonder if you could tell us why you are concerned about poo output, and what the weight loss was/is what weight is she now, I note Olesia asked about diabetes, has that been discounted

I am grateful of the question, as it starts debate, and you never know what a forum throws up

if you find anything out please let me know

Jx
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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Jean
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Posts: 1707
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: A really outlandish question

Post by Jean » 06 Oct 2018, 11:18

i have looked through your other posts and see you have a Toller, I have never heard of them, totally beautiful
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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Olesia711
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Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: A really outlandish question

Post by Olesia711 » 06 Oct 2018, 13:06

Hi Eric,

SOme of our EPI dogs will loose a little extra weight simply from the stress of an activity / anxiousness or nerves.
Other times, it can be a sign of SID becoming uncontrolled again
Then yet other times, it could very well be that the B12 is slipping.......

As you can see, the answer is not simple so it is a process of trying things one at a time to see what is triggering the weight loss.

As far as feeding more, if she has lost weight, i am assuming her body needs the add'l calories. If she is receiving the proper EPI balance of treatment.... then most of the extra food/nutrients should be absorbed by the body. If she starts pooing volumes.. that means something is not right...........

To put on healthy weight, with many of these dogs, we give them MCT fat which is usually very well tolerated by most of these EPI dogs, (and it helps dry skin) ... we give cold-pressed/extra virgin coconut oil. Just don't give coconut oil from Walmart ... i personally use Jarrow's extra virgin coconut oil i buy it fromw Swansons, but you can also get it from Amazon. Start with 1/2 tsp to make sure it is well tolerated.. if poo okay (not greasy/sloppy) after a few days, increase to 1 tsp per meal.

The other thing you can try is more protein..... just add real meat to the diet.

ANother thing you might want to try (as a 1-thing at-a-time) or weight, is to slightly increase the enzymes by 1/8 tsp... it might be that she just needs more enzymes now to effectively absorb all the nutrients in her food..................

Or you can swap foods to a more higher calorie food.......

These are jsut some weight gaining tips.... there are others, but hopefully this will help..
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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Jean
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Posts: 1707
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: A really outlandish question

Post by Jean » 07 Oct 2018, 05:18

just one curiosity

have you been advised to keep poos at a low rate ?

j
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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