I really need help😔

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
Barb
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Country: United States
State: New Jersey

Re: I really need help😔

Post by Barb » 08 Nov 2022, 10:51

So glad to hear the improvement. You are a good detective.....reducing the fat worked. Keep track of any more changes. You are right to do one change at a time. Keep the good news coming.

Barb

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Olesia711
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Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: I really need help😔

Post by Olesia711 » 08 Nov 2022, 12:50

Hi Farshid,

So glad to hear that changing the diet with a lower fat meat has helped AND adding the kibble seems to have greatly improved things.

You are doing a GREAT job trying things ....slowly Figuring out what is wrong can take a lot of patience but well worth it.

Regarding feeding a balanced diet.... as you work thru what items agree ... little by little you will be able to create a diet that agrees with your dog and with your finances... it just all takes time.

Please continue to keep us posted.
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

Farshid
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Posts: 11
Country: Iran
Pet name: Hana
My name: Farshid

Re: I really need help😔

Post by Farshid » 05 Dec 2022, 03:25

Hello again friends
Unfortunetly bad things happened
As you know
I restrict fat for hana and her food was veal(meat)
And a little piece of pumpkin and about 50 germ of royal canin hypoallergenic(and the plan was increase royal canin slowly for more balanced food)
But something weird happened
After 3 weeks of this plan hana gain weight about 3 kg and her stool was perfect and every thing seems perfect but suddenly
She became diarrhea and vomiting and very severe hair loss and severe itching😞
We went to vet and he said this is food allergy and alao Prescribing metronidazole and anti histaminef for 5 days😐
He said probably hana has allergy to royal canin hypo allergenic(and not veal)
Because when i was on just veal we hadnt this
But after 3weeks of adding royal canin this happened(also wet said hana probably has a base of IBD in her Intestine)
Now
I cut off kibble for 3 days and it seem the signs decreasing but stools is still loose😐
And she loss her 3 kg
Now i am confused again
What can i do?

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Jean
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Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
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Re: I really need help😔

Post by Jean » 05 Dec 2022, 04:34

Good morning from the UK

It is possible that you have a grain intolerance

Rc has a lot of grain fillers

ROYAL CANIN® HYPOALLERGENIC dry is a complete dietetic feed for dogs formulated to reduce ingredient and nutrient intolerances. Selected sources of protein and carbohydrate. RECOMMENDATIONS: It is recommended that a veterinarian's opinion be sought before use. Feed HYPOALLERGENIC dry for 3 to 8 weeks. If signs of intolerance disappear, this diet can be used indefinitely.
Composition: Rice, hydrolysed soya protein isolate, animal fats, hydrolysed poultry liver, beet pulp, minerals, soya oil, fish oil, fructo-oligo-saccharides, borage oil, marigold extract (source of lutein). Protein sources: hydrolysed soya protein isolate, hydrolysed poultry liver. Carbohydrate source: rice.
Additives (per kg)*: Nutritional additives: Vitamin A: 27500 IU, Vitamin D3: 800 IU, E1 (Iron): 42 mg, E2 (Iodine): 3.8 mg, E4 (Copper): 15 mg, E5 (Manganese): 55 mg, E6 (Zinc): 154 mg, E8 (Selenium): 0.26 mg - Technological additives: Clinoptilolite of sedimentary origin: 10 g - Preservatives - Antioxidants.
*Values reflect levels added to the formula, not those naturally occurring in components of the diet.
Analytical constituents: Protein: 21.0% - Fat content: 19.0% - Crude ash: 6.1% - Crude fibres: 1.1%, essential fatty acid (Linoleic acid): 2.47% - EPA/DHA: 0.33% - Omega 3 fatty acids: 0.95%.

it has rice and chicken which several dogs including mine have an intolerance to it

is this the only one you can get in Iran, I know things are difficult over there for you, is there any grainand chicken free food you can get from a pet shop

let us know
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

Farshid
Member
Posts: 11
Country: Iran
Pet name: Hana
My name: Farshid

Re: I really need help😔

Post by Farshid » 05 Dec 2022, 04:49

Hi jean
Thank u🙏
Yes we have some brands like hills
But they are so expensive because our situation in iran
But the other problem is i only can choose fat restricted food and this make the process harder
But i can prepare home made for her

Farshid
Member
Posts: 11
Country: Iran
Pet name: Hana
My name: Farshid

Re: I really need help😔

Post by Farshid » 05 Dec 2022, 06:13

I am thinking a bout adding some potato
(Not sweet potato because its not available in iran)
As a source of carb for her
Whats your idea?

Chance
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Posts: 149
Country: Canada
Pet name: Chance
My name: Andrea

Re: I really need help😔

Post by Chance » 06 Dec 2022, 02:14

With the problems you are having, I would suggest a home made diet, at least for now. Start with ingredients you know Hana tolerates. This way there's no preservatives (which might also be a problem). Start with limited ingredients, especially if IBD is a potential issue. If all is improving, gradually add more ingredients.

Your main concern with this plan is ensuring you get the vitamins and minerals required. Ground kelp is one way to help get the iodine and mineral requirements that are not really found in meats and vegetables. (You don't really need to worry about this right away, but I would for the near future if going for homemade).

Potatoes are OK. I do add Sweet potato to my dog's food. Potato is fine as well, but you do need to be sure it is thoroughly cooked.

Your main ingredient should be meat. (Start with one single meat protein). Veggies (including potato) should not be a large percentage of the diet. If you are watching fiber content - as most EPI pet parents are - the veggies are where the fiber is coming from. (There's no fiber in meat). Potato skins are fairly high fiber; less in the potato itself. Eggs - hard boiled - (and even finely ground eggshells) are good. No fiber in eggs. Decent source of B vitamins.

Keep the juice from the meats. Most of the water soluble vitamins wind up there!

Farshid
Member
Posts: 11
Country: Iran
Pet name: Hana
My name: Farshid

Re: I really need help😔

Post by Farshid » 06 Dec 2022, 11:18

Thanks chance
Now My biggest chalange is
Should i change the veal to another type of meat
Because after 5days that i cut kibble
Yet still hana has severe hair falling and a lot of dandruff on her body( diarrhea and vomiting is gone but she has loose stool)
Is it just because of allergy to kibble or
I should change the veal
(Because changing diet is the hardest thing for me and hana, she will be diarrhea and loosing a lot of weight)
Also she is in heat and has bleeding and iam worry about her

Sorela
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Country: Romania
Pet name: The little Countesses
My name: Sorela

Re: I really need help😔

Post by Sorela » 07 Dec 2022, 00:43

Hi,
You said youCould cook for her… well I cook for my 3 dogs : i boil in a big pot: white rice+ chicken/ turkey meat+ Carrot+ zucchini+ sweet potatoes.
I also give them boiled white macaroni+ cottage cheese with low fat in it. Every 3 days I give them 2 quail eggs or 1 chicken egg( boiled)

But I also give them some kibble daily, about 15 % of the food/ day is kibble( low fat), because I have noticed that without the kibble it is impossible for my dogs to gain weight.
I also give my dogs Selenium+ zinc+ vit E; vit B12 every day. It is hard with this disease to keep a good balance in vitamins and nutrients.
With the loose stool, slippery elm Could help( i dont know if you can find it in your country).

The home cooked meals dont have enough calories, kibble have a high procentage of calories.I understand is very hard, I know how expensive and hard must be for you, because Im in the same boat with my 3 dogs.
You Could try and see how Hanna is with home cooked meals for a while, but introduce slowly everything.
Sorela
BECKY, SHEEVA+BLACKY 13 years each, ideal weight 15kg, 13 kg, 18 kg(each girl have lost around 1.3 kg), since june 2022 chronic pancreatitis ; since 5.10.2022 CPL over 1000, hyperlipidemia, malabsorption, SID. TLI not tested yet, waiting the CPL to be stable.1 poop/day/dog, with form, orange and soft

Present: 5 low fat small meals / day/dog ;all are taking: 1cps lypex/120 gr food/dog + 1/4 tsp slipp elm/dog: 2 x/day + B12 chemeyes+selenium+ zinc+ E: 1x/day/dog+ 1/4 tsp/dog beef tripe powder: 1x/day+1/8 tilozina(Tylan) 2x/day
Ideal Poops. Weight gain 450 gr/girl
Hills low fat+Homemade: rice+ chicken breast+quail egg+Cheese 0,5% fat +sweet potatoes+boiled carrot.
We fight to decrease CPL

Chance
Member
Posts: 149
Country: Canada
Pet name: Chance
My name: Andrea

Re: I really need help😔

Post by Chance » 07 Dec 2022, 01:06

If you suspect veal may be an issue, it's fine to switch to another protein you know Hana does tolerate.

With kibble, it's very hard to say what exactly caused the sensitivity. There's a number of other ingredients. Other preservatives. It could be the veal, could be one of the other ingredients/preservatives OR could even be as simple as how the preservatives affected the meat (or other ingredients). So really, there's a lot of unknowns.

But since you are concerned (and I totally get it. I still worry every day with my dog)! Keeps me up at night worry; so I absolutely understand. Since you are concerned, it's completely fine to switch to a different protein, especially if you know of one she does tolerate. Later on, when she's a little more stable, you can slowly introduce other proteins. But I'd only add one new ingredient at a time; so if something causes a problem, you know exactly what it is. (Food elimination diets are a pain! I have had to do it a few times. But it's a necessary thing that really does help going forward)

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