Which Probiotic/Prebiotic to start with

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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jleach04
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Posts: 6
Country: United States
State: New York
Pet name: Bruce Wayne
My name: Jen

Which Probiotic/Prebiotic to start with

Post by jleach04 » 05 Aug 2022, 13:37

There seems to be a ton of information on pro/pre biotics helping SIDs but I am at a loss as to which one to try first. Prior to his dx, we did use fortiflora for a time, which seemed to have some positive impact on his digestion. I am wondering if we should start with that one or wondering if there is a better one to try first. Looking to see what seems to have had the best results for folks. I know each EPI dog is different so if no hard feelings if any suggestions don't pan out. However, if I can give him the highest chance of success the first time around that is what we will try first.

Bruce is 6yr German Shepherd/Malinois, recently diagnosed EPI (also has IMHA). Currently on RC HP (mostly hard, but some canned) food, Enzyme Diane 6x powder 1 teaspoon per cup of food, takes IMHA meds with raw pumpkin (2 tablespoons per day). Currently he has normal poops (First time in 8 months) but seems to still have an upset stomach and tummy rumbles. He is eating but only about 80% of what he should be eating for a dog his size. I think the upset stomach is hindering his progress currently. He is currently 83 lbs and his goal weight is between 85-90 lbs so he is right on target but I dont want to lose ground if he is not eating enough. I am ordering some slippery elm but thought I would also order some pre/probiotics.

Also as an update to my previous post about his swollen lip, the benedryl seems to be working well and the swelling is down significantly, our next step is to figure out what is causing his allergy. The benedryl might be impacting his eating but that was an issue prior to the swollen lip so I think it will still be an issue once he is through his allergy flare-up.
Jen
Upstate NY, Bruce Wayne, Belgian Malinois/German Shepherd, 6 yrs, EPI/SID and IMHA.

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Johnnycake
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Posts: 51
Country: United States
State: Texas
Pet name: Johnny
My name: MacKenzie

Re: Which Probiotic/Prebiotic to start with

Post by Johnnycake » 06 Aug 2022, 13:15

I have tried many different options and have actually had the most success with a powdered colostrum supplement! I don't know how well this might work for others, but it has made a noticeable difference for Johnny and we've actually been able to cut back on some of the other stuff we were using, and no longer supplement with other probiotics.

We mix it in the same as we do the enzymes, it seems very palatable to him and there are lots of other beneficial nutrients, too! The particular one we use is from Manna Pro and we get it from the same tractor/farm supply store that we get the needles for his B12 injections.

Jane&Clyde
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Posts: 162
Country: United States
Pet name: Clyde
My name: Jane

Re: Which Probiotic/Prebiotic to start with

Post by Jane&Clyde » 06 Aug 2022, 22:23

Slippery elm works as a prebiotic, so there is no need to add an additional one if you are using it. Three of the probiotics that are recommended here are Dr. Mercola Complete, Visbiome, and Proviable. Whatever probiotic you use, be sure to start with less than half of the recommended dose, then slowly work your way up until you get to the recommended dose or find a level that works for your dog.

Personally, my dog did best on the Dr. Mercola Complete, followed by Visbiome, then the Proviable. However, I know that many dogs do great on Proviable. The Dr. Mercola Complete and the Visbiome will look astronomically expensive at first glance. However, Clyde was able to get good results from 1/4 to 1/3 of the suggested maintenance dose of both of those which makes them less expensive than it initially looks like.

Jaqueline
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Posts: 2
Country: United States
State: New York
Pet name: dd

Re: Which Probiotic/Prebiotic to start with

Post by Jaqueline » 02 Jun 2023, 20:04

Johnnycake wrote: 06 Aug 2022, 13:15 I have tried many different options and have actually had the most success with a powdered colostrum supplement! I don't know how well this might work for others, but it has made a noticeable difference for Johnny and we've actually been able to cut back on some of the other stuff we were using, and no longer supplement with other probiotics.
We mix it in the same as we do the enzymes, it seems very palatable to him and there are lots of other beneficial nutrients, too! The particular one we use is from Manna Pro and we get it from the same tractor/farm supply store that we get the needles for his B12 injections.
oh the same. I'll try.

Jaqueline
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Posts: 2
Country: United States
State: New York
Pet name: dd

Re: Which Probiotic/Prebiotic to start with

Post by Jaqueline » 02 Jun 2023, 21:12

Jaqueline wrote: 02 Jun 2023, 20:04
Johnnycake wrote: 06 Aug 2022, 13:15 I have tried many different options and have actually had the most success with a powdered colostrum supplement! I don't know how well this might work for others, but it has made a noticeable difference for Johnny and we've actually been able to cut back on some of the other stuff we were using, and no longer supplement with other probiotics.
We mix it in the same as we do the enzymes, it seems very palatable to him and there are lots of other beneficial nutrients, too! The particular one we use is from Manna Pro and we get it from the same tractor/farm supply store that we get the needles for his B12 injections.https://trapthecat3.com
oh the same. I'll try.
But it's not success.

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Montgomery
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Posts: 433
Country: Canada
Pet name: Montgomery (I'm a CAT!)
My name: V

Re: Which Probiotic/Prebiotic to start with

Post by Montgomery » 02 Jun 2023, 21:17

Journal everything your pup eats and don't let him run free-range for a bit. There are so many things this time of year that can cause allergic reactions. My neighbour's cat La Bamba had yanked all the hair from the backs of her ears. She is allergic to the hedge, it turns out.
Montgomery was born 20 March 2012. He is SUPPOSED to be eating a home-cooked diet, but refuses. He eats Purina True Instinct Grain-Free Chicken and whatever chicken-based tinned food we can entice him with. Nine pounds of pure stubbornness. He gets two size 0 capsules of Enzyme Diane at each meal and one size 4 capsule of Tylosin three times daily. Sometimes he gets Petromalt. He's our little Spitfire, and when he purrs you KNOW he's got a real Merlin engine. Lately, he's taken to giving hugs. His hobbies include shooting marbles, shredding cardboard, and irritating his sister.

Chance
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Posts: 405
Country: Canada
Pet name: Chance
My name: Andrea

Re: Which Probiotic/Prebiotic to start with

Post by Chance » 03 Jun 2023, 01:32

The pre/probiotic can be a loaded question. As you mentioned, every dog is different. I think it can depend on the severity of the dysbiosis.

I tried 5 different products before stumbling on one that appeared to help. Finally #5 is what showed merit! Each time we had a SIBO setback, I took it to mean that the probiotic I was giving wasn't the answer. Probiotic #2 (sold by the vet - Aventi GI - was the only one that seemed to make matters worse. Causing discomfort in the tummy). Probiotic #4 was Proviable. This is one that us quite common in the EPI community. But it just wasn't strong enough for my dog. It's a decent one, but at 7 billion CFU, it's very, very weak.

Probiotic #5 was Garden of Life, Restore. This one has 100 billion CFU per capsule, so very high potency! (The bottle is misleading. It says 200 billion; but that's for 2 capsules). Due to the strength of this one, I started very slowly, gradually building up. Started at about 1/4 capsule per day. I did that for 4 days, then 1/2 capsule for 4 days before going to a full capsule per day.

Visbiome is another one that is very high potency. I have recently bought this one (as it has pretty much the same strains). I do believe this one is also very good! According to Visbiome, the pet version is exactly the same as the human version. (This is one you'd also build up gradually).
Chance was my 4 legged soul mate. My mobility assist service dog. Pure yellow Lab, 75 lbs. After struggling with weight all his life, finally dx with EPI. cTLI < 1, folate and B12 very low. Fed Raw. Maintained with Creon, Garden of Life probiotic and intermittent calcium bentonite clay. (Tylosin was a big nightmare for him)!

Rylee is Chance's successor; also pure Yellow/Fox red Lab. Started with symptoms at 8 weeks. At 6 months of age, also prescribed Creon due to suspected EPI (due to passing large amounts of undigested food). Currently suspected of blockages in pancreatic ducts. She is maintained VERY nicely on Creon and probiotics. Also raw fed.

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Montgomery
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Posts: 433
Country: Canada
Pet name: Montgomery (I'm a CAT!)
My name: V

Re: Which Probiotic/Prebiotic to start with

Post by Montgomery » 22 Dec 2023, 19:04

How? Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but someone with EPI has to have enzymes with each meal, and thus, everything they eat is controlled. Montgomery lives with eight other cats who all eat different things, but I know everything that he's intested, how much, and when.
Montgomery was born 20 March 2012. He is SUPPOSED to be eating a home-cooked diet, but refuses. He eats Purina True Instinct Grain-Free Chicken and whatever chicken-based tinned food we can entice him with. Nine pounds of pure stubbornness. He gets two size 0 capsules of Enzyme Diane at each meal and one size 4 capsule of Tylosin three times daily. Sometimes he gets Petromalt. He's our little Spitfire, and when he purrs you KNOW he's got a real Merlin engine. Lately, he's taken to giving hugs. His hobbies include shooting marbles, shredding cardboard, and irritating his sister.

jessefay
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Posts: 1
Country: United States
State: Texas
Pet name: dog

Re: Which Probiotic/Prebiotic to start with

Post by jessefay » 28 Dec 2023, 22:35

Keep a food journal for your dog and restrict him freedom of movement for a while. This time of year, a lot of things might trigger allergic responses. pico park

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