New rescue dog in UK with EPI

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
teddydog1
Member
Posts: 5
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: TEDDY
My name: Sandy

New rescue dog in UK with EPI

Post by teddydog1 » 14 Jun 2023, 06:47

teddy.jpg
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This little guy is 4 years old at the end of June and was diagnosed with EPI in September of last year, his previous owners had little support or follow up from their vets after diagnosis, they were given some Pro-Enzorb capsules and were literally wished the best of luck.
I collected him to come in to our rescue on Sunday 11th of June. He was previously fed 4 x 125g raw feeds per day with 1/4 capsule of Pro-Enzorb added to each meal, he had also been given a lunchtime snack of steamed veg but no enzymes were added to this meal.
I intend to up his meals to 200g 4 x day, I wanted to increase it to 6 meals a day but do I need equal amounts of enzymes for each meal because trying to split the capsule of granules into equal parts of 4 is hard enough so to do it in to 6 parts is going to be difficult, or does it not matter if the amount is equal but he just needs any amount as long as he gets some from the one capsule, could I give him 1 and a 1/2 capsule?
Tomorrow he is going in for a bile acid test (no breakfast for a dog already starving :cry: ) and a scan of his liver because his ALT was reading 720, up from Septembers reading of 416!
I've got some milk thistle tablets and some soil based probiotic arriving today to add to his food. Can someone please offer advice as to what we can do because this poor boy is not doing so good and weighs an abysmal 7.8kg after having lost 2kg in the last month :cry:
Many thanks for any advice, sorry for the large image!
Sandy

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jilbert57
Staff
Posts: 2129
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: New rescue dog in UK with EPI

Post by jilbert57 » 14 Jun 2023, 10:43

Sandy, thank you so much for taking in this little lass.
I have contacted a staff from UK who can answer about your enzyme.

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

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Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 3933
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: New rescue dog in UK with EPI

Post by Olesia711 » 14 Jun 2023, 11:56

Hi Sandy,

thank you thank you THANK YOU for taking this poor pup in. And for contacting us.
I will try to answer your questions as best i can AND, like Jill mentioned, we also contacted our UK rep to chime in as soon as she can.

First, your plan to increase hie meal is an excellent next step:
"I intend to up his meals to 200g 4 x day" ... this should be sufficient for now, and while giving him 200g of food, start with 1/2 capsule sprinkled on top of the food and served immediately with each of these meals... so you will be going thru 2 capsules a day.

My hope is that 1/2 capsule with this amount of food should be enough...

Regarding the bile acid test.....good plan. i am very interested in the test results as dogs with EPI all have disrupted bile acid functionality. Please see the research about this on this page:
https://epi4dogs.com/epi-research/
Long ago, when a dog was diagnosed with EPI, they automatically gave them Cholestyramine which worked like a charm for the bile acid malfunction... but then they stopped doing this, i have no idea why. Since then they started recommending various acid reflux meds, and the current recommendation is Omeprazole. However, we often start with Slippery ELm powder and if that doesn't work, then go to Omeprazole. However.. very recently they are starting to use Cholestryamine again.

Regarding the high ALT, if it is just the ALT that is that elevated, my guess is that this is nothing more than out of control SID S(small intestinal dysbiosis) which greatly raises the ALT. At this time, no one know how to get rid of SID, BUT they do know how to treat it. First they start with prebiotics, if that fails, then a combo of probiotics & prebiotics, if that fails, (and it often does), then they recommend Tylan (Tylosin Tartrate antibiotic)... DO NOT let the vet prescribe Metronidazole (Flagyl).... as this will kill ALL the gut flora bacteria which is the last thing you want to do with an EPI dog. If the Tylan fails (even after a couple of repeat trials).. then they are now recommending a Fecal transplant... which sounds disgusting, but is simple, cheap and kind of give the gut flora a new lease on life :)

IN the end, what we have observed, is when SID is out of control, do the above that is recommended.... BUT.... in the end, what usually is the final piece of the puzzle is to change the food to something that really agrees with the individual dog's gut flora. UNfortunately every dog's gut flora is unique so sometimes (many times) it is a real pain to try and figure out what composition of food ingredients best agree with each dog.

Over time, because we see more EPI cases than any other entity in the world, we noticed that most (but not all) EPi dogs do better on food without grain, keep the carb content low, avoid foods packed with peas, lentils, but rather start with foods that have sweet potato or white potato. ONce the dog is doing better on a certain food THEN, if you are willing, "try" adding a little rice to the meals to see if it is or is not well tolerated. and then feed accordingly. This way you can ascertain if the dog can or cannot handle grain :) and which grain. For those that can handle grain, we noticed that rice seems to be the most well tolerated.

regarding the B12.... considering the condition of this dog, even though the Proenzorb has B12 in i, i would still give a B12 supplement for now... and then once dog is stable, back off on the extra B12. For now, any excess B12 in the body will be eliminated via urine.

I hope some of this information helps and PLEASE if you have any more questions, please ask
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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Jean
Forum Director
Posts: 1707
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: New rescue dog in UK with EPI

Post by Jean » 14 Jun 2023, 13:49

0k i am annoyed

i have posted loads

it has gone
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 3933
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: New rescue dog in UK with EPI

Post by Olesia711 » 14 Jun 2023, 13:58

the same happened to me the other day... felt like throwing the computer at the wall!!!! :x
Take a break and then please try again............................... :)
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

teddydog1
Member
Posts: 5
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: TEDDY
My name: Sandy

Re: New rescue dog in UK with EPI

Post by teddydog1 » 14 Jun 2023, 14:04

Many thanks for the information, I'm going to need experienced owners who've managed their own dogs to get me through this because the vets where I am don't appear to be that clued up about EPI and they were clearly shocked by Teddys condition, as I was when I saw him. I have Slippery Elm, I'm a big fan of it!
The poo is horrendous he's averaging 10 big cow pats daily, awful cream coloured and resembling gruel :shock:
I see know signs of jaundice so hope as you say his raised levels are due to out of control SID.
In September of last year his TLI result was 1.8, it's obviously sensible to repeat the test again do you agree?
Thank you
Sandy

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Jean
Forum Director
Posts: 1707
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: New rescue dog in UK with EPI

Post by Jean » 14 Jun 2023, 14:04

just ring me

0151 726 1468
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

User avatar
Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 3933
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: New rescue dog in UK with EPI

Post by Olesia711 » 14 Jun 2023, 14:15

Forgot to mention... Definitely give the milk thistle!!!!
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

User avatar
Jean
Forum Director
Posts: 1707
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: New rescue dog in UK with EPI

Post by Jean » 15 Jun 2023, 05:27

Dear God its happened again

ok I am from Liverpool, and we used Pro Enzorb maybe once I have had very long conversations with Protexin, who manufacture this product

Anyway we used Lypex for two years and changed to

https://www.petplanet.co.uk/d2682/panzym?campaign=18005946120&adgroup=&keyword=&gclid=Cj0KCQjw7aqkBhDPARIsAKGa0oIQndKncR4I9jz09yYvoB88dqV0R4oU6PRBGlmGWkDveL0pnsXj8tIaAmydEALw_wcB

this changed Karas life and she thrived

what about b12 supplementation, this is essential to an EPI dog and must have the Intrinsic Factor inbuilt, as they cannot produce it naturally due to tthe pancreas failing

https://chemeyes.co.uk/product/vitamin-b12-capsules/

1 per day

Tylan is a really good antibiotic and you can get it from the vet

as to food what are you feeding , the rule of thumb is give 50% over and above what the guidence on the food bag over a few meals all enzymedm maybe a light meal inthe evenig before bed of mashed potato and scrambled egg, we recommend grain free , My Kara couldnt tolerate chicken or poultry fat , you can get a choice at Pets
at home

the thing is keep it simple and record everything you do
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

User avatar
Jean
Forum Director
Posts: 1707
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: New rescue dog in UK with EPI

Post by Jean » 15 Jun 2023, 05:29

My dog needs a walk before it gets ridiculously hot, so will say more later

dont forget, you cn ring me 0151 726 1468
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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