Numerous Stools per day

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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louisamurray19
Member
Posts: 13
Location: Durham
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Belle, Rory
My name: Louisa

Numerous Stools per day

Post by louisamurray19 » 25 Sep 2023, 18:00

Hi, This year we have added a 2 yr old Pem Welsh Corgi who has EPI to our pack.
His EPI test came back showing virtually zero pancreatic enzymes - lab actually ran the test twice to make sure. We give him 1/2 cup of kibble with 3/4 tsp of enzymes twice a day. His stools are pretty well formed but can be somewhat soft, no diarreah. The question I have is he is going 5-6 times a day and they can be quite volumnous for a 17 lb pup. I'm wondering, maybe we're not giving him enough enzymes? Compared to our two other Corgi's he's out pooping them 3 to 1!
TIA
Belle is our 7 year old Pembroke Welsh Corgi who was recently diagnosed with EPI. Once we got a diagnosis and started treatment she is doing great. She is on Viokase-V enzymes, 1/2 tsp per 1/2 cup of food twice a day. She gets a capsule of Wonderlabs Pet Factor B-12 with Intrinsic Factor every day. Belle also has some other autoimmune disorders, but over all, she is a healthy, energetic girl who has her hands full managing mom and dad, her 6 year old Corgi cousin, a 10 year old Dowager Bichon and an 11 month old Corgi pup.

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Olesia711
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Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Numerous Stools per day

Post by Olesia711 » 25 Sep 2023, 20:17

Thanks for writing in.

There are a couple of things to try... and yes first try increasing the enzymes by 1/4 tsp.. do this for a few days and see if you notice any difference.

BUt... if possible, its best to figure out what the underlying cause is.

If this is happening with a newly diagnosed EPI dog.... it usually means something needs to be adjusted....but also, what often happens with newly diagnosed EPI dogs is that initially everything appears resolved and dog is delivering normal poos.... for about 2 or 3 weeks then everything goes down hill and it usually means SID /SIBO (dysbiosis) is rearing it's ugly head and needs to be taken care of.

But, from your post, it "sounds" like the poos have been large and multiple since the beginning... yes????

If so, try the following but try one-at-a-time:

1. increase the enzymes and see if that helps.... and helps enough to produce normal poos. .. however, usually when the poos are soft and or voluminous... it often indicates that the food is not optimal.... either too much grain/fiber or too heavy on the carbs. Many (but not all) of these dogs often do better on more protein, less carbs... What is the name of the food are you feeding?
Also, how are you preparing the enzymes with the food? What brand/kind of enzymes are you giving him.

2. Sometimes it is because the dogs needs B12 supplementation and is not getting any or is not getting enough.

3. SOmetimes it is that SID/SIBO was never gotten under good control.... and if you are doing the enzymes, B12, diet correctly (and have tried adjusting each one) and still the stools are not good, then you need to focus on SID.
First we start with prebiotics If that is unsuccessful, we try pre+probiotics, if that fails (and this often does when dogs are first diagnosed with EPI... however with set-backs, pre/probiotics often works well) so... if this also fails, then ask your vet for a 45 day /twice a day course of Tylan antibiotics.

If you can please share the TLI test results with us AND was he tested for B12 (Cobalamin) levels?
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

Eddiespaghetti
Member
Posts: 333
Country: United States
State: California
Pet name: Eddie
My name: Jeremy

Re: Numerous Stools per day

Post by Eddiespaghetti » 25 Sep 2023, 22:42

I went through this exact same thing when my pup first started enzymes. Well, actually before, but I know why that was. It took Eddie two weeks of enzyme treatment to start pooping a normal amount. During that time I introduced probiotics and B12 supplements, along with Tylan powder. I can not say exactly what helped as I threw everything at him.
I basically did everything Olesia recommended, save for the one at a time part, and it finally got better. I wish there is a cure-all I could tell you about but trial and error seems to be the solution.

louisamurray19
Member
Posts: 13
Location: Durham
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Belle, Rory
My name: Louisa

Re: Numerous Stools per day

Post by louisamurray19 » 26 Sep 2023, 14:01

Thank you for the replies!
We have had Rory for a little over a year and started right away working on his EPI as his previous people did not properly address it. We already had Belle who has EPI so knew what to do with Rory.
Here's what we've done and are currently doing:
Food: Taste of the Wild Pacific Stream Grain Free Smoked Salmon Flavor. I believe this was recommended as a good brand for EPI on this forum.
Enzymes: Enzyme Diane porcine enzymes. 3/4 tsp that we let incubate for 20 min with room temp water prior to each meal. I adjust accordingly based on the enzyme strengths in each batch, as they can fluctuate.
B12: Rory gets about 1/2 capsule (500mcg) twice a week of PetFactor B12 Intrinsic factor. His levels, the last time checked were good the vet said. They were really high and that was with giving him the B-12 3 times a week. So, we cut it back to twice a week.
I had his gut biome checked shortly after his IDEXX tests. Results came back no SID/SIBO. Actually, the report showed a fairly healthy gut, all things considered. But, I do give him a DoggyBiome ImmuneSheild probiotic that supports gut health.
I have Tylan but thought it's only used with diarrhea so I haven't given him any.
I have attached his IDEXX test results.
Sounds like the first thing I should try is increasing his enzymes and we'll go from there.
Thanks again,
L
Attachments
Rory Murray Idexx 1.12.23.pdf
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Belle is our 7 year old Pembroke Welsh Corgi who was recently diagnosed with EPI. Once we got a diagnosis and started treatment she is doing great. She is on Viokase-V enzymes, 1/2 tsp per 1/2 cup of food twice a day. She gets a capsule of Wonderlabs Pet Factor B-12 with Intrinsic Factor every day. Belle also has some other autoimmune disorders, but over all, she is a healthy, energetic girl who has her hands full managing mom and dad, her 6 year old Corgi cousin, a 10 year old Dowager Bichon and an 11 month old Corgi pup.

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jilbert57
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Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Numerous Stools per day

Post by jilbert57 » 26 Sep 2023, 15:26

What you are doing is all good. Please remember that an Epi pets B12 needs to be upper high range, 600 or higher. Just normal is not high enough. I realize his B12 number is from Jan 2023 and was high then. Just beware it can drop quickly.
Keep up the good work.

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

Tuckaboo Pam
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Posts: 1425
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: Numerous Stools per day

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 26 Sep 2023, 15:53

Tucker is 4.5 years into treatment, poo is usually good consistency, but he still goes at least 6 times/day. I have tried everything, and I've just had to accept the fact that he goes every time we go outside. He can hold it for 12 hours, and he can also go every hour. When we go outside, he poops, kinda Pavlovian. It's a mystery, but since he managed to gain 25-30 pounds, I guess it's normal for him. I wish this was not the case, and I hope you'll be able to tweak your way, to 1 or 2 times/day. ---Pam
Tucker was a shepherd mix--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Diane's Enzymes 4 t/day, B12 1 capsule/day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon/day. Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 4 c/day. 60 to 85 pounds! Tucker succumbed to hemangiosarcoma Nov. 2023. I will always, always miss my sweet big boy.

Now there's Nina. 5 year old GSD. TLI 1.0 B12 323. We are still tweaking her routine, and getting lots of help from the forum. She is klutzy and goofy, and we love her dearly, too.

louisamurray19
Member
Posts: 13
Location: Durham
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Belle, Rory
My name: Louisa

Re: Numerous Stools per day

Post by louisamurray19 » 26 Sep 2023, 20:17

Thanks everyone for your replies. All good info and hopefully, we can get Rory's volume down or maybe he's just like Tucker and it's "normal" for him. :D
Belle is our 7 year old Pembroke Welsh Corgi who was recently diagnosed with EPI. Once we got a diagnosis and started treatment she is doing great. She is on Viokase-V enzymes, 1/2 tsp per 1/2 cup of food twice a day. She gets a capsule of Wonderlabs Pet Factor B-12 with Intrinsic Factor every day. Belle also has some other autoimmune disorders, but over all, she is a healthy, energetic girl who has her hands full managing mom and dad, her 6 year old Corgi cousin, a 10 year old Dowager Bichon and an 11 month old Corgi pup.

Eddiespaghetti
Member
Posts: 333
Country: United States
State: California
Pet name: Eddie
My name: Jeremy

Re: Numerous Stools per day

Post by Eddiespaghetti » 26 Sep 2023, 20:24

Well 0.5 cTLI is the lowest I have seen. Mind you, I didn't know what EPI was till about 4 months ago.
I have had better luck with taste of the wild high prairie. I am not sure the flavor makes a huge difference though.
With the B12 levels at almost 2000, I feel B12 wasn't withheld 5-7 days before the test. It's not a huge deal, but can skew the results quite a bit. If you are already giving it and there is no weight loss, you are probably on the right track.
Tylan is an antibiotic, that prevents the growth of new bacteria. It does help with diarrhea by cutting down on the bacterial count. It does help with inflammation of the GI tract as well. I am not saying you need to give it. It was just one part of the throwing everything at Eddie and hoping something helps. You could talk to your vet and see if they think it will help.

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