Numerous Stools per day

[louisamurray19]

Hi, This year we have added a 2 yr old Pem Welsh Corgi who has EPI to our pack.
His EPI test came back showing virtually zero pancreatic enzymes - lab actually ran the test twice to make sure. We give him 1/2 cup of kibble with 3/4 tsp of enzymes twice a day. His stools are pretty well formed but can be somewhat soft, no diarreah. The question I have is he is going 5-6 times a day and they can be quite volumnous for a 17 lb pup. I'm wondering, maybe we're not giving him enough enzymes? Compared to our two other Corgi's he's out pooping them 3 to 1!
TIA

[Olesia711]

Thanks for writing in.

There are a couple of things to try... and yes first try increasing the enzymes by 1/4 tsp.. do this for a few days and see if you notice any difference.

BUt... if possible, its best to figure out what the underlying cause is.

If this is happening with a newly diagnosed EPI dog.... it usually means something needs to be adjusted....but also, what often happens with newly diagnosed EPI dogs is that initially everything appears resolved and dog is delivering normal poos.... for about 2 or 3 weeks then everything goes down hill and it usually means SID /SIBO (dysbiosis) is rearing it's ugly head and needs to be taken care of.

But, from your post, it "sounds" like the poos have been large and multiple since the beginning... yes????

If so, try the following but try one-at-a-time:

1. increase the enzymes and see if that helps.... and helps enough to produce normal poos. .. however, usually when the poos are soft and or voluminous... it often indicates that the food is not optimal.... either too much grain/fiber or too heavy on the carbs. Many (but not all) of these dogs often do better on more protein, less carbs... What is the name of the food are you feeding?
Also, how are you preparing the enzymes with the food? What brand/kind of enzymes are you giving him.

2. Sometimes it is because the dogs needs B12 supplementation and is not getting any or is not getting enough.

3. SOmetimes it is that SID/SIBO was never gotten under good control.... and if you are doing the enzymes, B12, diet correctly (and have tried adjusting each one) and still the stools are not good, then you need to focus on SID.
First we start with prebiotics If that is unsuccessful, we try pre+probiotics, if that fails (and this often does when dogs are first diagnosed with EPI... however with set-backs, pre/probiotics often works well) so... if this also fails, then ask your vet for a 45 day /twice a day course of Tylan antibiotics.

If you can please share the TLI test results with us AND was he tested for B12 (Cobalamin) levels?

[Eddiespaghetti]

I went through this exact same thing when my pup first started enzymes. Well, actually before, but I know why that was. It took Eddie two weeks of enzyme treatment to start pooping a normal amount. During that time I introduced probiotics and B12 supplements, along with Tylan powder. I can not say exactly what helped as I threw everything at him.
I basically did everything Olesia recommended, save for the one at a time part, and it finally got better. I wish there is a cure-all I could tell you about but trial and error seems to be the solution.

[louisamurray19]

Thank you for the replies!
We have had Rory for a little over a year and started right away working on his EPI as his previous people did not properly address it. We already had Belle who has EPI so knew what to do with Rory.
Here's what we've done and are currently doing:
Food: Taste of the Wild Pacific Stream Grain Free Smoked Salmon Flavor. I believe this was recommended as a good brand for EPI on this forum.
Enzymes: Enzyme Diane porcine enzymes. 3/4 tsp that we let incubate for 20 min with room temp water prior to each meal. I adjust accordingly based on the enzyme strengths in each batch, as they can fluctuate.
B12: Rory gets about 1/2 capsule (500mcg) twice a week of PetFactor B12 Intrinsic factor. His levels, the last time checked were good the vet said. They were really high and that was with giving him the B-12 3 times a week. So, we cut it back to twice a week.
I had his gut biome checked shortly after his IDEXX tests. Results came back no SID/SIBO. Actually, the report showed a fairly healthy gut, all things considered. But, I do give him a DoggyBiome ImmuneSheild probiotic that supports gut health.
I have Tylan but thought it's only used with diarrhea so I haven't given him any.
I have attached his IDEXX test results.
Sounds like the first thing I should try is increasing his enzymes and we'll go from there.
Thanks again,
L

[jilbert57]

What you are doing is all good. Please remember that an Epi pets B12 needs to be upper high range, 600 or higher. Just normal is not high enough. I realize his B12 number is from Jan 2023 and was high then. Just beware it can drop quickly.
Keep up the good work.

Jill

[Tuckaboo Pam]

Tucker is 4.5 years into treatment, poo is usually good consistency, but he still goes at least 6 times/day. I have tried everything, and I've just had to accept the fact that he goes every time we go outside. He can hold it for 12 hours, and he can also go every hour. When we go outside, he poops, kinda Pavlovian. It's a mystery, but since he managed to gain 25-30 pounds, I guess it's normal for him. I wish this was not the case, and I hope you'll be able to tweak your way, to 1 or 2 times/day. ---Pam

[louisamurray19]

Thanks everyone for your replies. All good info and hopefully, we can get Rory's volume down or maybe he's just like Tucker and it's "normal" for him.

[Eddiespaghetti]

Well 0.5 cTLI is the lowest I have seen. Mind you, I didn't know what EPI was till about 4 months ago.
I have had better luck with taste of the wild high prairie. I am not sure the flavor makes a huge difference though.
With the B12 levels at almost 2000, I feel B12 wasn't withheld 5-7 days before the test. It's not a huge deal, but can skew the results quite a bit. If you are already giving it and there is no weight loss, you are probably on the right track.
Tylan is an antibiotic, that prevents the growth of new bacteria. It does help with diarrhea by cutting down on the bacterial count. It does help with inflammation of the GI tract as well. I am not saying you need to give it. It was just one part of the throwing everything at Eddie and hoping something helps. You could talk to your vet and see if they think it will help.