Do I feed the amount of pantenex with each "meal"?

[Jlynn77]

I have recently started to give my dog pantenex, I used to feed her twice a day, so I was starting with 3/4 tsp per 1.5 cups of food (meal). I recently started feeding her 3-4 times a day, smaller portions. My question is, do I give her 3/4 tsp with EVERY meal...even if moving it to 3 or 4 smaller meals a day?? I gave her 3 meals yesterday and one I didn't give her the pantenex, tofayi feel like her poop is back to being very soft. So I'm wondering if it's because of the meal I wasn't giving her the pantenex. Thank you in advance!!

[jilbert57]

Hi Jennifer.
The amount of enzymes is per cup of food, not per meal. I see Pantanex says 10x potency. So I would go for 3/4 teaspoon enzyme per 1 cup kibble incubated. Enzymes go on all food and treats. If you feed 4 times a day each meal needs the above ratio of enzyme per cup of food.

Jill

[Jlynn77]

Thank you for the clarification. I've been looking everywhere for some clarity! I'll tryit with every meal and hope it resolves the issue.

[Chance]

The Pantenex instructions on the jar are misleading. It gives instructions "per meal". But what they don't clarify well enough is that they define a "meal" as 2 cups of food. I

If you call in to Pantenex, they are pretty good with helping you over the phone. (Their email support really sucks). They recommend starting at 1/2 tsp per "meal" (or 2 cups of food). But tell you you may end up needing up to 3/4 tsp per 2 cups of food.

Enzymes are required with any food given. Enzymes do not stay in the system for much more than an hour at best. So yes, you will need to treat each meal, whether it's 4 meals or 2. If each meal you give is just over a cup, 3/4 tsp will be too much. You wouldn't need more than 1/2 tsp at most...probably even a tad less. But don't hesitate to contact Pantenex for help. They will work with you over the phone to come up with the best game plan for your dog.

With my dog, I started on a low dose, and somewhat slowly worked up to the dose that worked best. Look at poop quality, snd what your dog tells you. If you give too little, you obviously have EPI symptoms. Too much, and quite often you end up with acid reflux symptoms. (I don't give powdered enzymes anymore. They are more of a pain for Canadians)

[Eddiespaghetti]

This is where a lot of people differ. I prefer to star with high doses of enzymes. 1 teaspoon plus per cup of food. Once I got Eddie stable I started to cut back on enzymes. Giving too much can cause some acid reflux, but that is pretty easy to counter.
This is my personal way of doing it, and it worked for me. Hopefully, you can figure what works for you.

[Jlynn77]

Thank you. It's been a little over a week since we started so we are still learning. The other thing is she's been kind of coughing with maybe a little gagging in between meals. She didn't do that before the power, so I'm keeping an eye out. Maybe the acid reflux you guys are experiencing

[Olesia711]

you are moistening the food before you put the enzyme powder on the food, yes? and it is often best to let the enzymes sit for about 20 minutes first, mixed in the food.

If you are doing the above and the coughing/gagging continues... call your vet, explain the situation and ask if they can tell you how much pepcid AC to start with.... and if the pepcid AC doesn't work, or doesn't work well enough, then ask your vet will prescribe Omeprazole. I am suggesting the milder Pepcid AC... just in case you don't need the stronger amount.

Regarding the enzyme dose.... in short, you have to find what works best for your individual EPI dog, but according to the gastrointestinal researchers that we have dealt with at Texas A&M and UNiv of Illinois, we were advised that in general, it is sometimes better to start with a little higher dose of enzymes in the beginning and then taper down... OUr method is to taper down once the dog is stable (translation' delivering normal poos at a normal frequency) then "try " to taper down the amount of enzymes needed to sustain an EPI dog. This is done by reducing the amount of enzymes by small increments, such as 1/8 of a tsp less at a time- -assess the poos and if still good reduce again by another 1/8 tsp- -do this until the poos get sloppy again then you know you have reduced the amount of enzymes by a wee bit too much.

My personal experience was starting with 1 level tsp of enzymes per 1 cup of food and once my dog was stable (for us it was at the 3 month mark) i was able to reduce the amount of enzymes needed to 1/2 tsp per 1 cup of food. SHe was sustained with this amount until she hit 4 years with EPI, then i had to slowly increase the amount of enzymes.........

These enzyme dose amounts are all general suggestions.... a point to start with. IN the end, you as the pet owner simply has to try and see what works best with your EPI dog.

[Barb]

I agree with the 1 teaspoon of enzymes per cup of food to start.We kept Kolby on that dose his whole life and that worked for him. Each dog is different. When he was first diagnosed many years ago, our vet had only had one case of a dog with EPI, so he told us to add another teaspoon per cup for "good measure." Of course, Kolby got diarrhea. Luckily, I had just found the Forum and I remember Olesia saying (very diplomatically) that 2 teaspoons might be a little too enthusiastic a dose. LOL

As you balance the food and the enzymes, it helps to keep a log/journal of what you are giving each day, the amounts and the resulting poos. This helped to save our sanity..(almost).

Barb

[Eddiespaghetti]

The dosage is tougher nowadays because of the amount of options of enzymes and their strength. 6x, 8x 10x, it's not a bad thing by any means. It just makes everything a little more confusing. I have seen 10x that was actually weaker than 6x. Well, it had more amalyse but less lipase. It also depends on what is being fed. The higher the carbs, and fat the more enzymes you will need. On top of it all, sometimes grain can interfere with the enzymes. It's incredibly confusing at times. Once you get it dialed in, you shouldn't have to change anything for a while.

[Chance]

The dosage is tougher nowadays because of the amount of options of enzymes and their strength. 6x, 8x 10x, it's not a bad thing by any means. It just makes everything a little more confusing. I have seen 10x that was actually weaker than 6x. Well, it had more amalyse but less lipase.

You do raise an interesting point about the strength "numbers". I have seen that too, with numbers being lower, especially in lipase. I have seen that too, and at one point joked that they may be using pigs with EPI. (Though anything enzymes/EPI is no laughing matter).

The other big issue IMHO is the lack of consistency in labeling. Some, like Pantenex label "numbers" based on 'worst case at expiry'; essentially the lowest amount required by law to be listed as 10x. Others, like Diane, label based on numbers at time of manufacture.

This lack of consistency causes many people to question how a 10x could be lower than a 6x; when in all likelihood it is stronger. It causes confusion, especially when we're just starting out. I don't understand why there can't be one consistent pattern, and have all information at least readily available on their website.