Intolerance of Enzymez

[Greyden]

Hi Olesia,

Sent you an email. Thanks.

We have a question about why SID would cause enzymes in stomach to be barfed. As near as we can tell, the food and probably enzymes never leave the stomach. Also, from our observations, her poop until last night had been almost completely normal for a few weeks. Which means the SID was somewhat under control (right?) when we were trying to begin enzyme’s treatment.

Guess we won’t really know until we see if the slippery elm and B12 help. Would like to try the enzyme powder again after starting slippery elm. How long do you suggest we wait?

Thanks again,

[Eddiespaghetti]

If SIDs is really bad, all the bacteria overgrowth will basically "fill up" the intestines. Whatever you put in will come out of one of the ends. That's not exactly how it happens but I can't think of another way to try it. SIDs is a tricky beast. It can come on almost randomly. Luckily, it's very easy to treat once you get the underlying cause taken care of.
My advice for the next feeding is give 2 teaspoons of the powder enzymes and 1/4th teaspoon of the slippery elm (if you have). I think what is going on is; you aren't giving enough enzymes. Enzymes have to be given every meal and at a high enough amount to break down the food. It's a hot button issue on this forum vs what some vets and manufacturers say. I am basing it off where you said that you gave a very small amount of enzymes. I do not know your current regimen. If you can share what you do for each meal that might be helpful.

[Greyden]

Hi Jeremy,
Thanks for the info and explanation re SID.

We have no enzyme regimen at this point. She cannot keep them down.

She gets omeprozole to reduce stomach acid and Visbiome probiotic 2x/day. Eats at least 4x/day.

As we understand the digestive tract - in healthy dogs pancreatic enzymes are not present in the stomach but are in the small intestine. Are you saying that in EPI dogs, the supplemental enzymes begin working to digest food in the stomach? In my mind, that would explain why she gets nauseous.

We will try the enzyme powder again once we’ve given the slippery elm for a few doses.
Up until last night her poop was pretty darn normal and we felt SID was at bay. We knew that wouldn’t last and ,indeed, she has started back with pancake poop and gut rumbling and is ravenous as of late last night and this morning.

Hoping the Slippery Elm is going coat her stomach enough to give full dose enzymes with her meals.

Anxiously waiting slippery elm delivery. Will keep you all posted.

Thanks again

[Olesia711]

HI Gwen,

Got your email and am sending the CREON to you tomorrow. will email you with the tracking # when i get it.

AHHHhhhhh.... that tummy grumbling.... another sign that this might be SID/SIBO/Dysbiosis related.........

so.... when you started the visbiome.... did you start with full strength? and how long has she been on the Visbiome. Usually it is one of the best probiotics for our EPI dogs.... but not always.... it is also possible that the Visbiome is upsetting her and not addressing the SID in her gut. Problem with SID is that every og has their own unique gut flora composition (or lack thereoff) and all these commercial probiotics are "one-size-fits-all" which doesn't work with every dog.......... so..... this could be another possibility....

Unfortunately, you need to try things one-at-a-time to figure this out.... but we will work with you as best we can to help you fix this............

[Eddiespaghetti]

The enzymes start to work as soon as there is something to digest. Which is one reason for the incubation period. It allows some of the food to be digested before getting into the stomach. It also allows the enzymes to be moistened so it doesn't stick to the inside of their mouth and cause sores.
With raw pancreas, I forgot to answer this before, it's typically 1 ounce per cup of food. Each dog might need more or less. You will want not too cold and not too hot. You don't want to cook it. You can freeze it just make sure to thaw it before feeding. You can chop it up or puree it. You will want relatively small pieces. The smaller the better.
Some or all these problems could be from low B12. It wasn't that low with the bloods report, but it could have dropped since then. You could also have your vet give a B12 shot while you wait for the capsules.

[Greyden]

Hi Olesia,

I don't know what to think about Dot.
Tummy grumbling gone, no gas this afternoon & Poop normal this evening. I dunno .....
Nothing in her routine changed.

She has been on Visbiome since 14 Jan (pre diagnosis). Contents of 1 capsule sprinkled on food 2x/day unless I forget (a couple times).

Prior to Visbiome she had been on 1 packet of FortiFlora 1x/day basically since she was 9months old. We intend to go back to FortiFlora after finishing the Visbiome. No special reason why and if returning to FortiFlora creates a problem we can always go back to Visbiome.

Gratefully,
Greyden

[Greyden]

Hi Jeremy,

Thanks for your insights regarding enzyme powder.
Special thanks for raw pancreas instructions. That will certainly be an experiment. I have no clue how Dot will respond.
Dot had a B12 shot last Sunday night at the ER vet.
We are still waiting on delivery of B12 and Slippery Elm powder. Was supposed to be delivered today. I doubt it will get here until early next week. It is somewhere in the black hole of USPS in Salt Lake.
Thanks again for all your help.

[Greyden]

Update on Dot.

Dot has been on CREON since Turesday(13 Feb). Feeding 1 capsule/meal - was doing 4 meals/day but are going to feed smaller meals more often (5-6). Discontinued omeprozole and added Wonderlabs B12 with folate and intrinsic factor.

Her poo got better for a couple times but now back to “rope poo” (#5 on chart) which we hadn’t had for a while before Creon. She had been more #4. We are still tweaking meal size and capsules. Giving the pellets outside the capsule ie, sprinkled on her food did not lead to a great experience.

So many folks on the forum have mentioned good results with Taste of the Wild, we are transitioning to that food. We were advised that many of the ingredients in her current dry food could be problematic. Dot will stay on her current canned food, Royal Canin Gastrointestinal low fat for a the time being.

The best news is: her weight has stabilized. We hope to see some gains over the next week.

Thanks to all - especially to you Olesia.