Need help how to feed our EPI dog.

[Olesia711]

oh WOW!!! i am so glad you contacted her and found that your local store carries the real & natural green tripe and that you can get fresh raw beef pancreas from them also.

A family member of theirs, Tom, used to have a sister store, Green Cuisine, in Georgia that i used to order from.... fantastic products and they helped many a sick dog.... as a matter of fact, Tom worked with and donated products to our EPI researchers to help out. Great guy! Unfortunately he closed up shop a few years ago, and if i order from their Calif store, the shipping costs are too much to ship from Calif to NC....

But i am glad that you are close enough and can easily get their products!

If you decide to ever try their raw green tripe in addition to their beef pancreas..... fair warning...with the raw green tripe... buy playtex rubber gloves to handle the meat AND get a clothespin for your nose!!!! OMG, that stuff is extremely healthy, but it also is extremely stinky!!!!!

[Emma@MTK]

Hi Olesia,

We would like to update.

We started enzyme Diane 8x since February 1 , one teaspoon with 1 cup of home cook beef/sweet potatoes plus 1/2 patty of instinct raw, 3 times daily. We also still continue B12 in the morning meal. But so far we have not seen improvement. Her stool still bulky, large volume and no weight gain.

We tried slippery elm bark 1/4 each meal about a week, but it only made her stool soft so we stopped it. We got Tylan powder from our vet. How much should the dosage be for each meal and how many times a day?

The vet suggested kibble rabbit. We only found one brand with grain free, Instinct, with 20.5%. fat and 3.5% fiber. Have you heard about this brand? Is it ok to try?

We really appreciate your help.

Tom and Mariani

[jilbert57]

Good morning,
I am sorry you are having trouble getting Emmas stools under control. The Tylan is given 2 times a day for at least 45 days. It is bitter, some dogs don't mind the taste but if she does you might need to get gel caps and put the dose in it. Please add to food after incubation right before she eats.(other words meds do not need incubating)

Tylan (Tylosin Tartrate) Dosage Guide

13kg/30 lb – 1/8 tsp
27kg/60 lb – 1/4 tsp
41kg/90 lb – 3/8 tsp
54kg/120 lb – 1/2 tsp
twice per day

Are you giving enzymes with all food? Even treats?

So what I would do is add the Tylan in daily and see if that corrects it. If after 5 days or so nothing improves I would decrease the amount of enzyme to 3/4 teaspoon per 1 cup homecooked food. With the 8x strength and wet food we start at 3/4 teaspoon enzyme.

Please keep a diary or journal of what you are doing and try not to change more than one thing at a time( and give the change long enough to work) so you know if your change was positive or negative.

Have you noted any blood in the stools?

Jill

[Olesia711]

hi Tom and Mariani,

Jill gave an excellent advice on how to take the Tylan...what you are describing is typical SID, which ALL dogs with EPI have, but the question is what is the underlying cause that is caused it to get out of control.

Enzyme under-dosing is one possibility, but you are already addressing that by moving from pills to powder.
Over-dosing with enzymes can also trigger loose stools, and since you are giving 8x.... i'd heed Jill's suggestion of starting with 3/4 level tsp of powdered 8x enzymes to 1 cup of food.... maybe even drop it to 1/2 tsp 8x enzymes per 1 cup of food, since the food you are feeding is wet food.

Try the above and see if it helps or hinders improvement.... the enzymes adjustment should work fairly quickly. you should see +/- improvement within 3 to 5 days.

Please follow Jill's recommendation on the Tylan

Next... i agree with your vet asking you to try rabbit (as i suspect and the vet might be correct- -that she is dealing with a food sensitivity to beef).... so... try rabbit.... but with a little twist.......... do not go with kibble but rather fresh rabbit

SInce you are SOOOooo lucky to live near a Wild Forks store, they carry rabbit. My strong suggestion is for you to try feeding real rabbit meat (bake at 325) and include baked, skinned sweet potato and a veggie (cooked kale or broccoli).

try feeding approx 50% meat, 40% sweet potato, 10% green veggie

If this helps... THEN we need to talk about adding bone material and vitamins & minerals.

The reason why i am suggesting real rabbit meat vs. kibble is two fold:

1. you might be dealing with a beef food sensitivity and easiest to do process of elimination when home preparing a meal cuz you have control over exact ingredients and amounts that go into the diet.
2. there is a lot of bru-ha-ha going on now with dogs getting sick/dying from commercial food... even though FDA and food companies are denying, all of a sudden, many brand are no longer available, discontinued, shortages and multiple dogs getting sick/dying for multiple different food brands, and not only kibble but also canned too.. so it is not a stretch to include "commericial" raw in the list.

Whether or not there really is a problem, i have no idea. IN the past, we have been lied too by companies that come out with the truth long after a lot of damage has been done to our pets ... but also on the flip side..... we have also been duped by unfounded rumors.

SOoooo... my thought is, better safe than sorry until we have more conclusive information regarding commercial pet foods...so, if/when possible make your own pet food..........

[Emma@MTK]

Hi Jill and Olesia,

Thank you for your advice. We are giving Emma Tylan 1/8 tsp, two times a day. She doesn’t mind the taste. To answer Jill’s question, there is no blood in the stool.

About fresh rabbit, we’ve checked it, it’s $13/lbs in Wild Fork. We can’t afford it

We will watch in 5 days and hope there’s improvement from Tylan powder.

Tom and Mariani

[jilbert57]

Good morning. There are other novel proteins you can look up and check prices:
Bison
Veal
Pork
Kangaroo
Duck
Lamb
Fish

Unless you know your dog has already been exposed to one or more of the above you could try these.

Just a suggestion. Let us know how the Tylan works.

Jill

[Eddiespaghetti]

Hello again,
I found this rabbit/salmon recipe.
https://www.amazon.com/Instinct-Origina ... X0DER&th=1
It is about 5 dollars per pound, but it is also a complete diet, meaning you won't have to purchase additional components. I differ from a lot of people on this forum, as I prefer to feed "big brand" dog food. I know there has been issues, but IF I under nourished my sweet boi, I wouldn't be able to live with myself.
Ingredients
Rabbit, Salmon Meal, Menhaden Fish Meal, Chickpeas, Canola Oil (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid), Tapioca, Rabbit Meal, White Fish Meal, Dried Tomato Pomace, Natural Flavor, Peas, Montmorillonite Clay, Carrots, Apples, Cranberries, Vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate, Niacin Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin A Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Biotin), Choline Chloride, Minerals (Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Sodium Selenite, Ethylenediamine Dihydriodide), Freeze Dried Rabbit (including Freeze Dried Ground Rabbit Bone), Potassium Chloride, Salt, Pumpkinseeds, Dried Bacillus coagulans Fermentation Product, Freeze Dried Rabbit Liver, Freeze Dried Rabbit Lung, Freeze Dried Rabbit Kidney, Rosemary Extract.
It does have peas, but from my very small sample size experimenting. Processed peas do not affect them the same as whole peas, plus it is pretty far down the list. Sometimes, you just have to find the lesser of two evils, be a little sad, then hope for the best.
I hope this helps

[jilbert57]

Hi Jeremy! What do you mean by "big brand"
dog food?
Thanks

Jill

[Eddiespaghetti]

I guess what I mean is commercial dog food? I am unsure the terminology that is used for it. Purina, pedigree, nourish and the likes.

[jilbert57]

Ok, you prefer using one of those, like a name brand.
Thanks!

Jill