Bad poops after post-surgery antibiotics

[Olesia711]

Hmmmmmmm.....if you REALLY think it is the enzymes and since you have tried all those toppers..... there are a few more things you can try:

1. CREON ... which is enteric coated little enzyme pellets so that CHekov will not be able to taste any enzymes. I can send you some donated CREON to try... if you want.... email me (olesia.kennedy@gmail,com) privately with your mailing address:

2. you can pour the designated amount of 6x enzymes into empty gel caps and give them to Chekov when he is about 1/2 way thru his meal (just don't want to give before he eats in case he doesn't eat). This may require 2 or 3 capsules for each meal.

3. order enteric coated gel caps and you should be able to give a lot less number of capsules (probably only 1 capsule ) with 6x enzymes into these caps...
https://www.amazon.com/XPRS-Nutra-Size- ... 111&sr=8-2

4. with regards to Methylcobalamin B12..... you can order Wonderlab Pet Factor B12 pills
https://wonderlabs.com/PET-FACTOR-B-12
with the 1000mcg methycobalamin, 40 mg folate and intrinsic factor ... all which allow the body to best process oral B12 in an EPI dog.... and you can give 2 or 3 of these weekly inbetween the weekly shots.... might be worth trying . we also have a coupon that you can use for 15-20% off: EPI4DOGS15

[Eddiespaghetti]

Eddie can be a picky eater as well. We have tried a lot of different options. He would eat it for two weeks then stop.
https://www.chewy.com/pedigree-choice-c ... /dp/241215
This was the only thing we could get him to eat consistently. I know it has grain in it. He did tolerate it pretty well, we just had to increase the amount of enzymes. They make it in a can as well, but Eddie is 16 pounds and we don't like leaving a can open all day.
What basically worked was changing the ratio of dry food vs wet food. We are now at about 75 wet and 25 dry. We want him to have some kibble to help with his teeth.
At this point, we are feeding Ollie lamb and cranberries recipe. It has been a month and he is still eating it. Just please, don't tell him that.
https://www.myollie.com/fresh-dog-food/lamb/

[Rockymountainmama]

Hi Olesia,
Thank you so much for all the helpful tips and the offer to send Creon!! I'm unsure of the expense of this long-term (Vet visit, plus Rx to Canada), but before I inquire further...

I love the idea of #3, "order enteric coated gel caps and you should be able to give a lot less number of capsules (probably only 1 capsule )"

That would be GREAT if we could give him capsules and reduce the amount given. He is a total champ at getting pills shoved down his throat, so this would probably work well.

He is currently getting 2 tsp of Diane's 6x on each meal. Would you please explain the expected/recommended ratio of "previously administered tsp of powdered enzyme mixed with food: dosage of enteric coated capsules?" Not how many capsules a tsp would fill (7, I tried this before with regular 00 caps, but did not give to dog), but the difference in amount expected to be administered BY enteric capsule? (I hope I'm making sense with this question)

And Eddie, thanks so much for your helpful suggestions.

Sincerely,

RMM

[Olesia711]

Hi RMM,

Since you are giving 2 tsps of EnzymeDiane 6x per meal..... if you were stuffing the 6x enzymes into a regular gel coated capsules cap - my estimation is that you would need to give fill 6 capsules (size 00) to equal 1 tsp of 6x (i just tried this with some regular empty gel caps and the powder)

HOWEVER..... if you are using enteric coated capsules.... you technically should be able to use approximately 70% less... so my guess would be 2 enteric coated capsules filled with 6x powdered enzymes should equal 1 tsp of giving powdered 6x enzymes.

Since you are currently using 2 tsps of the powdered enzymes per meal.... i would start with 4 enteric coated capsules filled with 6x enzymes... see how it goes.

A while back one of our members from Canada did this and she said it worked great, then someone else tried it and also had good results. I contacted one of the veterinarian EPI researches and asked about this and although he had not heard of doing it, he said it makes sense and should work. SO..... i now pass it on as a possible option. After all..... many times in effectively managing an EPI dog one has to think "outside the box" and that is what is so great about having an EPI community that fosters lots of tips and tricks

It certainly won't hurt to try... you might even find that all you need is one enteric coated capsule to equate to 1 tsp of powdered enzymes.... but to begin with i'd start with more rather than less and see how it goes.

I hope this is what you were asking... if not.... please let me know..................

[Rockymountainmama]

Hi Olesia,

Yes! This is exactly what I was asking!

I can't wait to receive the enteric capsules that I'm ordering from Amazon and give this a try!

Thank you so much for the calculations, that is so helpful.

Hopefully our days of "extreme topper olympics" and "pathetic begging and coercing to eat" are going to come to an end soon

Sincerely,
RMM

[Olesia711]

Please let us know how this works out! I have not tried this myself, but am going by what a few others have said, and also from checking with one of the researchers... so "hopefully" this works!!!

Good Luck!

[Rockymountainmama]

Well whaddya know...this is working great!!

Nice firm poops for a couple days now. We are doing 4 capsules per meal, which for our 80-lb boy is 2 cups of kibble, twice per day. His weight has been roughly stable for nearly 2 years.

A couple of notes to wrap up this happy ending:

1) He is eating Canidae "Lamb, Goat and Venison" and has also eaten their "Salmon and Sweet Potato flavor." Neither fit within the fiber recommendations on the site, but he is allergic to poultry (chicken, turkey, duck) and it is very hard to find kibble without those ingredients.

2) We are weaning off "toppers" almost entirely. Just a small sprinkle of shredded cheese these last 4 days, and we can probably eliminate it soon. It's funny how much he loves his food without the taste of enzymes. I'm so glad to have found this alternative!

3) A training/conditioning note: He takes pills very easily (shoved down his throat), and I attribute it to early conditioning. This is my first GSD; my last two who crossed the rainbow bridge were a yellow lab we adopted at 18 months and an English Mastiff adopted at 5 years. We adopted our GSD at 9 weeks.

There is some debate over whether to teach puppies to not be "mouthy" (no putting dog mouth on human hand — ever) OR training them to be GENTLE with the human hand. Thank God I chose the second path. Super easy to give pills and super easy to brush teeth because he is VERY comfortable with my hand in his mouth! I think the established reason for this second path is to control the force of their bite.

-RMM

[Olesia711]

WAHOO!!!!!!!!!!!! this is terrific news! So glad to her that the enteric coated capsules filled with powdered enzymes is working for Chekov and that he is now eating..... AND that the poos are good too!!!

I am not only thrilled that this is working for Chekov... but this means that this will work for others having issues with their dog not wanting to eat their meals with powdered enzymes, o matter how many different tricks/toppers are tried.

And i am glad that our "estimation" of filling two "00" enteric coated empty gel caps with powdered 6x enzymes appears to be equivalent to 1 tsp of 6x enzymes.

So pleased!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Tuckaboo Pam]

Olesia--Do I understand you to say that you can use less of the enzymes, if you buy enteric coated capsules? --- Pam

[Olesia711]

yes.


.... others in Canada tried it, it works and now Chekov 's owner tried it and it works.... and i checked with one of the researchers a while back and he said theoretically it should work... so this "might" also be a way to cut back on enzyme expense by using less... of course you will have to figure out the cost of the enteric coated capsules AND when you try it, make sure the stools are fine... with the " two enteric capsules filled with 6x powdered enzymes " to make sure this ratio works for your dog .. or if you need to adjust it and if so does it still save you money....... but IMHO well worth trying .