What happens when the dog won't eat kibble?

[mum2zorro]

I hope I'm not being a pest. This is all so new. If the treatment for EPI is B12 injections and enzymes given with food.... what happens when they won't eat their kibble? At all?

Over the past month, Zorro has had a full blood work up and exam, which turned out to be fine. It was only when I dragged him to the vet yet again (after he had thrown up three times in one morning) and said "I need to know what is making this dog sick!" that she offered to run a GI panel... and we got the EPI diagnosis.

Throughout the month, when he went off his food I would try another. He was on hydrolyzed protein (because prior to the diagnosis the vet suspected a food sensitivity). He liked it until he didn't. Last week I got him Purina Pro Plan for small breeds, chicken protein, thinking he might like a revamped version of his familiar puppy food. He did. (It is 3.0 or less fiber. No peas.) Then the enzymes came. At first I "cheated" and mixed them with Greek yogurt with honey and then into the food. He ate it once. That was the last time.

The enzymes I'm using are by "Covetrus", "Pancreatic enzyme concentrate Powder" . The dosing is 3/4 t. at each meal, which seems weird because what is a meal for one dog isn't for another. I"m assuming they mean about a cup. Since I give half a cup, I was trying to give 3/8 t. per serving of whatever it is I'm feeding him.

Now he will not eat the kibble at all. Not with enzymes. Not with yogurt. Not with turkey bone broth. Not with enzymes just moistened with water. He won't even eat it without the enzymes now, which is what I was afraid of... a negative association that would scare him away from a food that had been working.

I called the vet and she said to just give him chicken or chicken/rice for now. But what is "for now"? He can't just live on that forever. I found (and lost) one thread in which someone suggested Pantanex enzymes. Apparently they are manufactured differently and might not smell as bad? So I ordered some, but don't know the dosing.

Meanwhile he did eat a baked chicken breast with rice and enzymes this morning... but how is that sustainable?

Any advice on what to do when a dog is on full out kibble strike? (He wouldn't eat the canned food I offered as an alternative today either.)

[jilbert57]

Will he eat food without enzymes?

If he won't eat the kibble (Purina)he might be saying there is something wrong with it.

Could you replace the rice with some baked sweet potato? So if you feed half cup of moisture containing food(homemade or canned) it would be 3/4 teaspoon enzyme per 1 cup wet food.

Has it been discussed of putting the powdered enzymes inside enteric coated gel caps?

Jill

[Olesia711]

switching enzyme powders won't really make any difference.
camouflaging with tasty toppers often works, but if it doesn't usually they will adjust to the enzymes after a few days of protesting and not eating anything at all....the huger will kick in.

HOWEVER.... if it makes you too nervous to let Zorro starve for a few days..... what you can try is order enteric coated capsules and fill two capsules (this is equal to 1 tsp of powdered enzymes in potency) with the powdered enzymes (he won't taste the enzymes this way) and let him eat about half the food, then give him the two filled "00" capsules
https://www.amazon.com/XPRS-Nutra-Size- ... B0BFVTXVLN
.. and let him finish the remainder of the food.

However... for now, if you can substitute baked sweet potato for the rice that might be better.... you can try rice later on and see if Zorro can or cannot tolerate it........

REgarding the enyzmes... some companies don't give the right dose on their labels.... we strongly recommend 1 level tsp powdered enzymes (approx 71,4000 USP units of Lipase, etc) per 1 cup of moistened kibble or 1/2 to 3/4 tsp of the enzymes per wet (canned or home-made) food

We all know how frustrating it can be in the beginning.... but remember you are new to all of this so of course you have questions.... and we will gladly share tips and tricks with you...........so many of us have been there / done that.

Oh... and going forward... try to keep all your Zorro questions in one thread... that way we can keep track of Zorro's history and have a better understanding of what does and doesn't agree overall with Zorro........

[Eddiespaghetti]

I strongly recommend a wet food topper. My dog is picky as well and will not eat plain kibble. He is currently on Ollie lamb and cranberries, but there are a lot of options.
https://www.amazon.com/Honest-Kitchen-H ... hdGY&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/Purina-Beyond-Na ... 186&sr=8-6
https://www.amazon.com/NatureS-Recipe-G ... 186&sr=8-9
He has had all of those until he gets tired of it and we have to get something different. I feed him the recommended amount of kibble and add the wet food as the extra calories.
Hopefully, Zorro will be more hungry soon as he gets his B12 shots.

[mum2zorro]

Will he eat food without enzymes?

If he won't eat the kibble (Purina)he might be saying there is something wrong with it.

Could you replace the rice with some baked sweet potato? So if you feed half cup of moisture containing food(homemade or canned) it would be 3/4 teaspoon enzyme per 1 cup wet food.

Has it been discussed of putting the powdered enzymes inside enteric coated gel caps?

Jill

Thank you, Jill!

He liked the kibble before this. Now he won't eat it without enzymes either. It's as though he has made the association and expects it to taste bad.

He will eat chicken and rice with enzymes. Thanks for the ratio! "3/4 t. per feeding" sounds vague when the amount he will eat, if he eats at all, varies. "3/4 t. per cup of wet food" makes more sense.

No, we haven't talked about putting the enzymes into gel caps. I'll ask the vet about that!

[mum2zorro]

switching enzyme powders won't really make any difference.
camouflaging with tasty toppers often works, but if it doesn't usually they will adjust to the enzymes after a few days of protesting and not eating anything at all....the huger will kick in.
Thank you, Olesia! Is it true that many people supplement with tripe to disguise the taste/smell of the enzymes?

HOWEVER.... if it makes you too nervous to let Zorro starve for a few days..... what you can try is order enteric coated capsules and fill two capsules (this is equal to 1 tsp of powdered enzymes in potency) with the powdered enzymes (he won't taste the enzymes this way) and let him eat about half the food, then give him the two filled "00" capsules
https://www.amazon.com/XPRS-Nutra-Size- ... B0BFVTXVLN
.. and let him finish the remainder of the food.

Silly question, but are there devices one can use to fill the capsules?

However... for now, if you can substitute baked sweet potato for the rice that might be better.... you can try rice later on and see if Zorro can or cannot tolerate it........

REgarding the enyzmes... some companies don't give the right dose on their labels.... we strongly recommend 1 level tsp powdered enzymes (approx 71,4000 USP units of Lipase, etc) per 1 cup of moistened kibble or 1/2 to 3/4 tsp of the enzymes per wet (canned or home-made) food
Ah! Thank you! As to the 1/2 to 3/4 t. .... per how much wet food? Is that per 1 cup?

We all know how frustrating it can be in the beginning.... but remember you are new to all of this so of course you have questions.... and we will gladly share tips and tricks with you...........so many of us have been there / done that.

Thank you. I feel like I have nothing but questions. So grateful you are all here to share.

Oh... and going forward... try to keep all your Zorro questions in one thread... that way we can keep track of Zorro's history and have a better understanding of what does and doesn't agree overall with Zorro........

Ah! Okay. Thanks for clarifying the protocol. I'll try to hang out on this thread.

[mum2zorro]

I strongly recommend a wet food topper. My dog is picky as well and will not eat plain kibble. He is currently on Ollie lamb and cranberries, but there are a lot of options.
https://www.amazon.com/Honest-Kitchen-H ... hdGY&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/Purina-Beyond-Na ... 186&sr=8-6
https://www.amazon.com/NatureS-Recipe-G ... 186&sr=8-9
He has had all of those until he gets tired of it and we have to get something different. I feed him the recommended amount of kibble and add the wet food as the extra calories.
Hopefully, Zorro will be more hungry soon as he gets his B12 shots.

Thank you for those links! I sure hope his appetite picks up.

Will stock up on toppers to try!

[Olesia711]

Hi JUdy,

Feel free to ask as many questions as you need...... i am sure you are familiar with the pharse " it takes a village to _ _ _ " well, you can fill in the blanks with EPI dogs! THere are many tips and tricks....to effectively managing EPI.... but not all EPI dogs read the EPI handbook.. ... so sometimes we have to be extra creative!

YES, there actually are gadgets to help fill capsules... here:
But one of our members ame up with this idea when giving Tylan powder, and had to pour the powder into empty gel caps...so you can do the same when pouring enzyme powder into empty gel caps... see picture below:


“Here is a way to get Tylan down instead of putting it in the food. My Brynn stopped eating very early on because Tylan was on her food. So I got “00” gelatin capsules from a compound pharmacy, a block of florist foam from the dollarstore (and poked holes in it with a pencil), used a cake decorator tip as a funnel and measure out 1/8 tsp Tylan per capsule. There is still some room to add a pinch more if needed. I just pop these down her throat right before her meal. ” – Maureen.

Similarly, inexpensive encapsulators and gel caps are available from health food stores or online at retailers like Amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/Microcentrifuge- ... 736&sr=8-9

https://www.amazon.com/Capsule-Filling- ... 736&sr=8-4

[Olesia711]

more answers:

raw green tripe is an excellent camouflage.... but it is REALLY stinky!!!!!!!!!!!! you can try a sardine, buy a can from walmart that carries sardines packed in water and no salt.


that 1/2 to 3/4 tsp of powdered enzymes per 1 cup of wet food (sorry i didn't specify the food amount in my previous post)

[Eddiespaghetti]

I am going to try to switch to the capsule method. I ordered the Capsules and the tools. In doing research I found this little guy
https://www.printables.com/model/630873 ... d-mi/files
It will cost me about 2 dollars to make, using their approximation of filament. I do not know if you know anyone with a 3D printer though.