NINA

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 4137
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: NINA

Post by Olesia711 » 12 May 2024, 17:09

i too am wondering... possible plugged anal glands...............

good that you are bringing her to the vet.

SO.... if the poos are sloppy with enzymes tucked in the enteric coated capsules.... either:

1. add another capsule
2. go back to giving enzymes mixed in the food

REmember.. we are just trying this enteric coated capsule filled with enzyme powder "trick" to see if it does work... and it seems to work with many of these dogs, but maybe not all....
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

Tuckaboo Pam
Member
Posts: 1441
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: NINA

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 18 May 2024, 15:28

Olesia, I have gone back to the old way of mixing enzymes with food, but ONLY because I can't keep her from biting the capsules. I will be trying this again, because it makes so much sense, and Nina is very happy not to wait 20 minutes for her food to "cook". The more I know her, the better I am at tricking her, so I should be able to figure this out.

YES! It was the anal glands, and it took a muzzle and four humans to get those bad boys drained. This vet said pumpkin won't help, but my regular vet always recommends it, so I'll keep giving her a teaspoon per meal.

NEW QUESTION/seeking opinions---

Two years ago, when Nina first got to her second home, she weighed 96 pounds, with no mention of obesity in her paperwork from that time. One year ago, before diagnosis, she had dropped to 76. She was given the EPI label in June 2023. By August 2023, she was up to 86.

Yesterday at the vet she weighed <82 pounds. Based on her treatment plan when she got here, I doubt anyone recommended feeding her the extra amount we tell people their dogs need. I made no mention of her weight to the vet, and he didn't indicate that he thought she was too slight.

SO, she weighs 14 pounds less than she did two years ago, and I plan on increasing her daily food intake from 4 cups/day, to 6/cups. Do you all think this sounds like a good idea? Or maybe she's OK being 14 pounds under what she was? She's a big girl.

I'll check back and see what y'all think. Thanks---Pam
Tucker was a shepherd mix--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Diane's Enzymes 4 t/day, B12 1 capsule/day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon/day. Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 4 c/day. 60 to 85 pounds! Tucker succumbed to hemangiosarcoma Nov. 2023. I will always, always miss my sweet big boy.

Now there's Nina. 5 year old GSD. TLI 1.0 B12 323. We are still tweaking her routine, and getting lots of help from the forum. She is klutzy and goofy, and we love her dearly, too.

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Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 4137
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: NINA

Post by Olesia711 » 19 May 2024, 11:02

Hi Pam, i wouldn't necessarily go by what she weighed a long time ago and before you got her- -since you don't know all the circumstances..., although i would give it some consideration in your decision... BUT rather i would give more credence to what she weighs now and if YOU think she needs to weigh more. And it sounds like you feel she should weigh more at this juncture.

So yes, 6 cups a day sounds like a good plan for now.... however... do it in 3 meals not just 2 meals. Not sure what your work schedule is, but if you cannot feed her lunch in early afternoon due to your schedule... then jsut feed her breakfast before you go to work, lunch when you come home from work and dinner about an hour before bedtime.... in other words, 3 meals with 2 cups served at each meal.

Thanks for letting us know about the capsules and that she crunches them.... Gotta give these dogs credit... somehow, someway, i swear, they always find a way to mess with us!!!! :roll:
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

Tuckaboo Pam
Member
Posts: 1441
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: NINA

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 19 May 2024, 14:47

Thank you. I'll do my best to feed her three times. This morning I did the capsules again. Gave her 2 at a time with a little soft butter, followed each time by a bite of hotdog, and there was no crunching, then she had her breakfast. It makes so much sense, to save all those enzymes. I'll keep it up for a couple of days, and report back on the results. THANK YOU!!!
Tucker was a shepherd mix--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Diane's Enzymes 4 t/day, B12 1 capsule/day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon/day. Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 4 c/day. 60 to 85 pounds! Tucker succumbed to hemangiosarcoma Nov. 2023. I will always, always miss my sweet big boy.

Now there's Nina. 5 year old GSD. TLI 1.0 B12 323. We are still tweaking her routine, and getting lots of help from the forum. She is klutzy and goofy, and we love her dearly, too.

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Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 4137
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: NINA

Post by Olesia711 » 19 May 2024, 14:53

thanks Pam for letting us know what is going on.... and please let us know if THIS works long term :roll:

fingers crossed that it does.

However watch the poo just in case this is too much fat with butter and hotdog.... you might need to change the meat to something less fatty
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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jilbert57
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Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: NINA

Post by jilbert57 » 19 May 2024, 15:03

How does the dog in front of you look?
Do you look at Nina and say I can see all her ribs! She has a neck roll! She looks good! What do you see?
I always feed by what I see when I look at each individual dog.
TJ is eating strictly meat and veggies and treats are freeze dried meat. I was seeing his back 3 ribs. Olesia said add a little sweet potato and I find I can control his weight by feeding more or less sweet potato. He is 18lbs so I am talking a small amount of sweet potato.
He does NOT have Epi.

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

Chance
Member
Posts: 364
Country: Canada
Pet name: Chance
My name: Andrea

Re: NINA

Post by Chance » 19 May 2024, 21:31

Jill has a very good point. Do you feel she looks "too thin"? And you were just at the vet. Did they mention that she should gain more weight?

As for what happened last year, if she gained 10 lbs in just 2 months after diagnosis, I don't think she was under fed. With Chance, he didn't gain his first pound until a month in. 2 months in, he was up 5 lbs. And I did feed extra. My vet stressed I had to; he needed 25 lbs on him. Nina gained surprisingly well in a short time. I'd imagine her vet was faster at getting a diagnosis than Chance's vet! Being a Lab, EPI wasn't on anyone's radar.
Chance was my 4 legged soul mate. My mobility assist service dog. Pure yellow Lab, 75 lbs. After struggling with weight all his life, finally dx with EPI. cTLI < 1, folate and B12 very low. Fed Raw. Maintained with Creon, Garden of Life probiotic and intermittent calcium bentonite clay. (Tylosin was a big nightmare for him)!

Rylee is Chance's successor; also pure Yellow/Fox red Lab. Started with symptoms at 8 weeks. At 6 months of age, also prescribed Creon due to suspected EPI (due to passing large amounts of undigested food). Currently suspected of blockages in pancreatic ducts. She is maintained VERY nicely on Creon and probiotics. Also raw fed.

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Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 4137
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: NINA

Post by Olesia711 » 20 May 2024, 11:37

some dogs gain back weight quickly, others don't..... BUT.... the best judge of whether or not your dog needs to gain weight is YOU :)

Also.... just a little tidbit. Some of these EPI dogs tend to need more food than what you would expect, just to maintain... even when they are stable.

My Izzy, who was 1/2 the weight of my male....(and he was an athlete!) and only 2 yrs younger.... for her entire 15 years on earth... ate twice as much as he did right to the end.

not only might some EPI dogs need more food be due to the EPI condition.... some might also need more food cause they have a higher metabolism than another dog. They are not all identical.
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

Tuckaboo Pam
Member
Posts: 1441
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: NINA

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 22 May 2024, 22:04

Thank you all for the support. I've decided just to feed her a little extra.

She looks good. I'd like to see her have more energy, but I keep reminding myself that spring was just beginning when she came down here from NJ, and she's still adjusting to this FL heat & humidity.

Two days on the capsules. Olesia, I use just a swipe of butter & a bite of hot dog. Do you think that's too much fat?
Tucker was a shepherd mix--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Diane's Enzymes 4 t/day, B12 1 capsule/day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon/day. Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 4 c/day. 60 to 85 pounds! Tucker succumbed to hemangiosarcoma Nov. 2023. I will always, always miss my sweet big boy.

Now there's Nina. 5 year old GSD. TLI 1.0 B12 323. We are still tweaking her routine, and getting lots of help from the forum. She is klutzy and goofy, and we love her dearly, too.

User avatar
Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 4137
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: NINA

Post by Olesia711 » 23 May 2024, 21:51

hi Pam,

....now that you ask... if possible, i would use either one of the other not both :)
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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