Help I think my dog has epi

[Eddiespaghetti]

Has your teeny tiny puppo been diagnosed for congested heart failure? This can cause increases in CPL. It can also cause high BUN. My tiny Chihuahua has it and presents with high BUN. We don't typically get a cPLI test though.
I do think our midgets would have been best friends. I just recently lost her. This is one of the last pictures we have of her. Even when sick she was incredibly happy

[Nat_99]

Hi Jill , chance, Eddie and everyone
I talked to vet this morning and asked what is antibiotic for? She said it’s for pancreatitis so I’m a bit dumbfounded. I told vet that Nobel,my dog has been on anti biotic for a month. She said she will stop giving if his cpl is the same about a week.
I insist on changing to Amoxy instead of met
I asked about tylan she said it’s for chicken and not suitable for small pet. Hmm….i trust many advice and knowledge from epi4dog more than vet.
The good news is his wonderlab slippery elm wonderlab b 12 intrinsic factor and pantenex arrive today.
Now I give slippery elm and b12 factor to vet.
1/8 teaspoon slippery elm
1 capsule of b12 intrinsic factor
I still prolong Pantenex and still use Lypex.

I am waiting for Assisi loop too.

Im sure nobel would be best bud with Eddie chihuahua too. He loves new friend and def love girls. Alwyas has burst of energy when he meets girl.5555 thank you for your help

[jilbert57]

Hi Nat. Please be sure your vet gives the slippery elm twice a day, breakfast and dinner, with some moist food or a little water added.

Can you print off the information for Tylan and ask your vet to reconsider?

https://epi4dogs.com/antibiotics/

Good articles and links to studies on use of Tylan for SID/SIBO management.

Jill

[Eddiespaghetti]

If they are using the antibiotics to treat pancreatitis. I would recommend panoquell CA1
https://www.ceva.us/News-Media/News-Rel ... in-the-U.S
I don't know if it is available where you live though. To me, not a vet, if the antibiotics aren't working after a month, it might not be an infection.

[Nat_99]

Hello Jill Eddie chance and everyone
I just want to update you guys with good news.
After Nobel takes slippery elm for a few days without prescribe probiotics and prebiotic his stool seems to be much more firm and better color too. Hooray!! The vet only wants Nobel to take b12 once a month. The first time he took b12 he looked so energetic and I am very happy with his health now. Do you think he should take b12 every 2 weeks? His b12 is around 400 but I have read that it’s better in middle higher range around 600.

For tylan it is hard to negotiate with vet. It seem they have their own resource and possibly ego.
I am just glad that the vet is willing to try the slippery elm.

I have ordered proviable just in case when he is off amoxy antibiotics. The vet said they will take amoxy off after his upcoming blood test. I watched dr Judy Morgan and she said that good fat like Omegle 3 fat is essential for long term. The Pawsomely omegle 3 fat states that you should give one capsule daily for dog under 20lbs. Nobel is so small around 3.7 lbs. should I give him like half capsule? Or start 1/3 capsule? I want to give him good fat but I’m scare for another flare up.

I just want say thank you so much for epi4dog!! Epi4dog has helped my dog so much. I would have no knowledge to improve my dog health. I would be the owner who would not be able to do anything but accept vet prescriptions without question. Please keep doing what you guys are doing!! You are saving so many dog’s life and happiness. You guys make many dog owners around the world happy . Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
Handsome Nobel when he was young

IMG_1555.jpeg (154.16 KiB) Viewed 2010 times

[Tuckaboo Pam]

Hello, Nat.

Please share the forum with your vet, and tell them the staff here closely follows the research and advice of Texas A&M University, where all the latest EPI studies are done. Your vet is correct, Tylan was created for respiratory issues in birds, but it has been researched & found to be beneficial in treating SID in dogs and cats, too.

B12 should be 600 or above in an EPI dog. This is higher than what is needed in other dogs. My Tucker's score was 666, and I still treated him. If they get too much, it is eliminated in their urine. I buy Wonderlabs Pet Factor on Amazon.---Pam

[jilbert57]

I would go 1/4 capsule once a day for the Omega 3 capsule, maybe for 3 days to make sure it doesn't affect his poop. Then add another 1/4 capsule so you are giving 1/4 cap twice a day. TJ is 18lbs and I started out with that dose for him and now I give half capsule am and pm.
See how that works on his gut. I agree with Pam his B12 needs to be up between 600-700 level so if it is the Wonderlabs B12 caps you have I would go 1/2 to 1 capsule maybe every other day. Is it dosed by weight?

Jill

[Nat_99]

Hello everyone !!
Thank you for your answer
Just want to give u an update today
Nobel has blood test today. His cpl progress is better from 421.40 and now is 296.40. However his bun is still in the same range 44. His creatinine is 0.70
I syringe water to him about 40-50 ml per day.
The vet gives 2 blended royal canine low fat wet food with 20 ml water. At lunch the vet syring Samylin with 5 ml water. I touch his gum and it is wet and slippery so I don’t think he is dehydrated.
Any supplements that you can recommend for kidney?

His stool progress
His stool in the morning is score 2-3.
In the afternoon during walk his stool is score 4-5.
The vet blend wet food with 20ml of water around 4.30 pm and I took him for walk at 5.30-6.30 pm. He pooped 3-4 times. Is his poop soft because of the food and there is not a lot of time to bake the poop? I’m more confused than ever. I will start to treat him at home. Every dogs hate to go to vet. He always has this pout face every time to the vet.

I am waiting for proviable probiotic which I hope that it will firm his stool. My last resort is to convince my vet to prescribe me tylan so I can order it online. I have show them the information but they seem non chalant about it. I will ask a friend of a friend who is a vet whether she can help me write a prescription for it.

I can’t order things directly from usa without a help of outsource shipping. Thailand do charge excessive import taxes 30% of product. Assisi loop has arrived today too I will try using it on him.
Many people asked me why do I spend so much money on a dog. I said he is my life and my baby.
I felt guilty for leaving him for 7 years with my parent and my grandmother. I wish I can turn back time and fight to bring him with me when I moved for work. They still said you care for dog more than human. For the remaining years of his life I will do anything to make him happy and better health. Thank you for you guys so I can do better for him. I will keep update again. I have told other owner how to better manage dog with epi. Have a nice day! Ps Nobel is still very energetic and love walking so much.

[Chance]

It looks like you are making some decent progress in getting the CPL down! That's encouraging!

The poop score changing during the day is a common complaint too. I'm not sure anyone really knows the reason. But in your case, part of it might be stress related. If the dog is showing signs of being unhappy with spending the day at the vet, that can certainly play a role! Another theory I have heard (although not the case with you), is that dogs are more active through the day; walking and playing. That kind of stimulates things to move through faster And more often.

For kidney, NAC (N acetyl cysteine) is showing promise. Although in vets and hospitals, it's typically used for liver protection when a toxin has been ingested; it's also showing promise for other organs as well - including kidney, and even pancreas

This article is more for people, but can also apply for dogs. Oral forms are available on Amazon (but not sure about where you are).

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/P ... with%20CKD.

This article seems to suggest that it is safe, and might also help those with pancreatitis

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/P ... %20of%20AP.

Caution though, for SID/SIBO. NAC does also work as a powerful biofilm disruptor. If the dog does still have SID/SIBO, and the bacteria have already formed a biofilm; the NAC can break down this biofilm. Inside a biofilm, bacteria is basically living very happy in its own ecosystem. It usually isn't causing symptoms - until it eventually decides to come out of its biofilm - then symptoms start again! Antibiotics do not penetrate biofilm...which is one reason infection can come back easily after antibiotic is done! Breaking the biofilm is good, especially if there's antibiotic or probiotic on board. BUT if you don't have any antibiotic at all now, releasing bacteria from its biofilm can cause symptoms of dysbiosis to appear worse. Good news is, with the biofilm destroyed, there's no where for bacteria to hide! It's all susceptible. (I have used NAC as a biofilm disruptor once I knew that I had a decent probiotic that was helping! Symptoms did start up again, and I doubled the probiotic. Within 4 or 5 days, everything was much better. So I kept giving NAC periodically to make sure no biofilm was starting up. It did help in my efforts of keeping Chance stable. (He was a tough nut to Crack. Tylan was a big nightmare for him! We tried to avoid metro. So we needed to find ways of helping without antibiotics. So there was a lot of trial and error before we didn't finally get him stable)!

[Olesia711]

Hi Nat,

I am just now catching up on Nobel's story (sorry for my absence as i was away on vacation for much of October when you first wrote in about Nobel) .... but it sounds like you are doing a wonderful job with him AND the folks here on the Epi4Dogs forum have been giving you great suggestions...... so i do not have much to add except to tell you (because i read where you are feeling confused at times) Please know that when dealing with EPI, even when you are doing everything right.... it is not always a positive path forward... many times it is like you are seeing two steps forward and one step backward.... WHat is most important is that even with little "set-backs" as long as overall, Nobel appears to be doing better.... then you are doing good.

Many times you start with what is the standard EPI recommended protocol.... but then... you have to make minor adjustments to get the best results for your dog.... and this might be what is going on with little Nobel (who is VERY cute !!!

The good and then not so good stools can be as explained by others, just stress/excitement as the day goes on... BUT.... if you notice the stools getting worse over multiple days/a few weeks.... THEN do try to get some Tylan. If you can't, then if the stools get really bad.... and nothing else worked and if you cannot get Tylan (Tylosin Tartrate) then see if your vet can prescribe some Oxytetracycline (Oxytet) .