Need Help-Dog having another setback

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
jdneal85
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Posts: 7
Country: United States
State: Kansas

Need Help-Dog having another setback

Post by jdneal85 » 27 Dec 2018, 14:03

Hi everyone, I've posted here a few years ago when my dog was having a setback and I got some answers from you that really helped. I'm hoping you can do the same again but you never know. My GSD girl is now 8 years old and we've been treating her EPI for 7 years pretty successfully. We've had 2 big setbacks during that time. The first time we discovered she was having some acid reflux issues and just added a Pepcid pill to her meals. The second time was about 2 years ago when I found out on here that the Pepcid had stopped working because we had been using it for so long. I used a recommendation from someone on here to use Cholestrymine and that worked almost immediately. She's been doing well since then but I just recently moved in September and when we moved she got fleas at the new house and hasn't seemed to be the same since. I have no idea if that would be part of the problem or not. I also don't know if maybe the Cholestrymine has stopped working at this point. Her poops are either somewhat formed but big or just the old cow patties. We have always used the powdered enzyme that I get from Enzymediane.com-6x. I've also always used a multivitamin in her second meal and she's never had a B12 issue, even when things have gotten bad. It's pretty bad now, she's been eating poop and even somehow ate a bunch of my socks. Her ribs are sticking out pretty badly and I know she's just miserable. Her energy isn't gone yet but I know that's coming soon. I have a vet appointment in the morning with a new vet but I know most vets struggle to get answers for EPI dogs. Another thing I've wondered about is the fact the her mouth seems very irritated these days from the enzyme and I didn't know if switching to the raw pancreas might be something to consider. Please let me know any ideas any of you might have to help get her back on track. Let me know if you have any other questions about her current treatment or anything like that. Thank you very much in advance for any help you can offer.

Joe

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jilbert57
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Country: United States
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Re: Need Help-Dog having another setback

Post by jilbert57 » 27 Dec 2018, 14:20

Hi Joe. Sorry to hear your pup is having another set back. I would try a couple things:
We find that sometimes as our EPI pups age, the enzymes need to be tweaked, first thing try adding maybe 1/8 t more per feeding and see if that helps. As far as mouth sores go, you can incubate the food longer and try following the meal with an ice cube or wet wash cloth to clean the enzymes from the face.
I would try this with your routine and see if maybe you notice a change innbn 4 to 5 days. You could add in another meal before bed time.
How are the B12 levels?
My name is Jill and I live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. I have two dogs: Kiya is an aussie/blue heeler and is 13, TJ is a 4 year old Jack Russell. They keep me on my toes.
Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.
6/1999 - 8/2014

jdneal85
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Posts: 7
Country: United States
State: Kansas

Re: Need Help-Dog having another setback

Post by jdneal85 » 27 Dec 2018, 15:10

Thank you Jill. I will try the ice cube after her meals and maybe add a little more enzyme to the meals as well. I really would like to get her an extra meal because she's so hungry these days. Her B12 levels have always been great, for some reason that hasn't ever been a problem for her but I'll have the vet check tomorrow. Thanks again for the advice!

I also forgot to mention in my original post that the other night she threw up twice and it was everything she had eaten that day, both meals. It was a lot and I didn't feed her for 24 hours after that. The next day she had decent little poops but then the day after that it got bad again. She has also peed while she slept a couple of times. This is almost exactly what happened with her other 2 big setbacks.

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Jean
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Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
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Re: Need Help-Dog having another setback

Post by Jean » 28 Dec 2018, 04:24

hi there

have you kept a journal

one thing, which ant acid were you using Kara has Ranitidine 30 mins before food

the mouth sores, try using a very shallow dish, preferably glass, and the ice cube is a good one, have you changed the time maybe of incubating the food before feeding ?

throwing up all of the food looks like a disturbance of balance in the gut, or an infection

let us know what the vet suggests

Jean
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

jdneal85
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Posts: 7
Country: United States
State: Kansas

Re: Need Help-Dog having another setback

Post by jdneal85 » 28 Dec 2018, 14:36

Hi Jean-

I used Pepsid for an antacid for a long time and then when it stopped being effective I switched to Choleystrymine powder which has worked well until now. I never really have kept a journal although I know it is a big help, I will probably start doing that now. I got her to the vet this morning and he took blood to send off for testing. With her other setbacks the bloodwork always came back pretty good and her B12 was always plenty high. It's frustrating because it would possibly be an easier fix to see something like that off so I'm kind of hoping for that to happen this time. He also questioned her water and I told him that for years I was giving her reverse osmosis water and with my recent move she just gets tap water. He said to try giving her bottled water just to see what happens. He also mentioned possibly trying an oral steroid because she has ulcers on her eyes and he said that could possibly help with that and her gut health. Right now though we are just waiting a couple of days for the blood work to get back. Thank you for your suggestions!

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Jean
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Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: Need Help-Dog having another setback

Post by Jean » 29 Dec 2018, 04:37

how high is the b12 result ?

reverse osmosis water, that is a new one on me, you live and learn

but maybe filtered water, probably cheaper than bottled water, and kinder to the environment

these dogs are sent to try us, and they do, every damned day

the ulcers on her eye lids, have they been tested, there could maybe, be an infection, could they be removed ?

let us know

Jeanx
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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Judy
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Country: Canada

Re: Need Help-Dog having another setback

Post by Judy » 30 Dec 2018, 05:12

Let us know what the blood results are. I'm thinking the B12 could be off.

Interesting about the water but it could very well be the cause of the mouth sores. You just never know with our EPI pups.
Piper was 13 months old when she began having symptoms and diagnosed at 16 months of age. She had lost 21 lbs from Oct 2013 to Jan 2014 but gained it back very quickly once she began enzymes, B12 and Tylan. She would go on to develop Hypothyroidism, Cushings Disease, SLO, SARDS as well as chronic infections. Through it all, she was just the happiest dog and never met a stranger, everyone was her friend.

Piper crossed the Rainbow Bridge on April 20th, 2018 at just 5 years of age from other auto immune diseases. She will be forever missed, forever loved and her spirit will live on in our hearts and our home.

Barb
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Re: Need Help-Dog having another setback

Post by Barb » 01 Jan 2019, 12:53

Hi Joe,

I am wondering if you've gotten any answers from your vet for your girl. I am sorry she is having difficulties. I read over your thread and didn't see any antibiotics listed. Your description of her poop sounds like SID/SIBO rearing up. Has she been on tylosin or any other antibiotic?

You also mentioned that she ate a bunch of your socks. Was that situation resolved or is it possible there is a blockage?

Let us know how she is doing.

Barb

jdneal85
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Posts: 7
Country: United States
State: Kansas

Re: Need Help-Dog having another setback

Post by jdneal85 » 03 Jan 2019, 14:40

Hey everyone, I finally have an update. The vet got her blood work back and everything looked fine except her cobalamin level was high. He said her B12 level was good and with the cobalamin being high it signals to him that she has SIBO. I told him she had been on Cholestrymine for about a year and half and he said that sometimes that can cause the SIBO/elevated cobalamin. He prescribed Metronidazole pills for a month and told me to take a break from the Cholestrymine for the time being. He also said if anything we can go back to the Pepsid and see how that works for her again. I really hope this works because she is getting to that point where she is just really miserable and starting to lose energy. Nothing I hate more than seeing those ribs sticking out like they do. Let me know what you guys think about this and if you have any recommendations or things my vet might have missed. Thank you!

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jilbert57
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Re: Need Help-Dog having another setback

Post by jilbert57 » 03 Jan 2019, 17:00

Did you already post the folate value? An EPI pup's B12 or cobalamin level needs to be in the high range. Maybe the folate level is high, which would indicate SID or SIBO.
My name is Jill and I live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. I have two dogs: Kiya is an aussie/blue heeler and is 13, TJ is a 4 year old Jack Russell. They keep me on my toes.
Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.
6/1999 - 8/2014

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