Seeking info re Pomeranians or small dog regime

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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Jean
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Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
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Re: Seeking info re Pomeranians or small dog regime

Post by Jean » 30 Dec 2018, 05:14

nice to hear from you Suzy
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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Jean
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Re: Seeking info re Pomeranians or small dog regime

Post by Jean » 30 Dec 2018, 06:32

Suzy

I have sent your profile to you by email, I could have added it for you but the new signature only allows 700 characters

so if you want to shorten it, and add it yourself, or I will if you want me to

jeanx
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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Madelon
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Re: Seeking info re Pomeranians or small dog regime

Post by Madelon » 30 Dec 2018, 21:22

Thank you Jean for helping Suzy. So happy to see you on the forum again Suzy - missed you and little Romeo!!
MADELON and Doc. DX EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
Test Results: (1st) 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; (2nd) 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; (3rd) 10/2015 TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4. Prior to DX: May 2014 (2mos) - DX coccidia/bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Dx SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May 2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop. Regimen: 4 cups Sport Dog Food Elite Herding - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 1/2tsp Slippery Elm 2xday; Multivitamin; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Salmon Oil

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kcblock1
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Location: Cape Cod
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Re: Seeking info re Pomeranians or small dog regime

Post by kcblock1 » 04 Jan 2019, 15:22

Nice to hear from another Pom owner. Zack has been doing fine but over the last two days he hasn’t been as interested in eating and today his poops were a little less normal than they have been. Only changes we have made have been starting to wean him from his Omeprazole, going down to every other day. But he has had two episodes of gastric reflux spit up since, need to investigate more. I wonder if anyone can advise regarding prep using canned food and emyzmes. He did board overnight and did well, eating all four of his small prepreped meals. We had started preparing food in meal size containers to cover a 48 hour period and wonder if with wet food preparing a head of time doesn’t work as well. We use PancreaPlus Powder. He also is still on Tylan. I’ve seen plenty of posts regarding preparing kibble ahead of time but not wet food. We’ve gone back to prepping just before feeding time to see if that makes a difference. He did eat some of the newer prepped food but only picked at it over time. He was maintaining at 10 lbs but has lost a few ounces. Energy level seems normal. Guess we are experiencing the ups and downs that happen over time. Thanks
Kathy Crocker, Cape Cod, MA, USA, Zack is a 6 year old, 10 lb., Pomeranian dx on Nov 6,2018 with TLI of 2.5 after month of yellow cow patty stool. Lost one pound. Stool converted to normal immediately, main issue gastric reflux. Currently on Royal Canin wet food with bits of kibble, ProcreaPlusPowder, Tylan pinch 2xday, B12 injection monthly, weening off compounded Omeprazole. Also receives twice daily Phenobarbital for history of seizures.

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Jean
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Re: Seeking info re Pomeranians or small dog regime

Post by Jean » 05 Jan 2019, 04:57

Suzy has been around a long while

I will leave the prep of wet food to the guys

we only really use kibble, and we dont have to incubate enzymes in UK

Jean
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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Madelon
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Location: Nashville, TN
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Pet name: Doc

Re: Seeking info re Pomeranians or small dog regime

Post by Madelon » 07 Jan 2019, 20:32

I am wondering about the B12 typically when there's a lack of appetite a lot of times it's due to low B12. I know I have seen Olesia and Susan post that sometimes the little dogs - for whatever reason - need more B12 than others - I guess they have harder time absorbing/maintaining. That being said, sometimes the B12 shots just don't work but have better luck with the WonderLabs Pet Factor B12 pills and some like Susan's Butter needed both pills and shots. Here is some information from our B12 page

A little background into the B12 science vs. application:

Intrinsic Factor: The intrinsic factor is needed to transport “digested” B12 into the blood stream. Technically the intrinsic factor delivery system should not typically be damaged by EPI, and supposedly (according to old research) the intrinsic factor should be species specific- -HOWEVER- -it has been repeatedly observed and confirmed via individual B12 blood tests that when a B12 pill includes the porcine intrinsic factor the success rate is much higher than with oral B12 pills that do not include the Intrinsic Factor. Why? We are not sure….

Methylcobalamin vs. Cyanocobalamin B12: Years ago it was only recommended to give B12 shots. The most common and inexpensive serum used in shots (in the USA) was Cyanocobalamin. Sometimes it just didn’t work, and a different version of B12 was recommended. In many of these cases, when switched to not another serum but rather oral B12 with the Methylcobalmin version of B12…the B12 levels greatly improved. Why? we are not sure….

In short, we honestly have no idea if the reason why these products tend to work is because of the (1) Intrinsic Factor or the (2) Methylcobalmin version of B12 .. (3) or both….
This does not mean that other B12 products do not work, many others work very well for many of our EPI dogs. It is up to the individual EPI pet owner to do/use what they think is best for their individual EPI pet.
MADELON and Doc. DX EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
Test Results: (1st) 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; (2nd) 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; (3rd) 10/2015 TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4. Prior to DX: May 2014 (2mos) - DX coccidia/bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Dx SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May 2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop. Regimen: 4 cups Sport Dog Food Elite Herding - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 1/2tsp Slippery Elm 2xday; Multivitamin; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Salmon Oil

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pommymommy
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Re: Seeking info re Pomeranians or small dog regime

Post by pommymommy » 16 Jan 2019, 18:42

Hi, I use wet food and recently started adding a bit of dry kibble to the mix which he seems to be enjoying much better. Can someone please confirm if the powder enzyme can be prepared far in advance of feeding? Something tells me it will not be as effective, but not 100% sure.

Kathy, I use Creon so I'm not the best person to answer your questions about powder enzymes. But, I can tell you what I do and maybe it will give you some background.

Romeo eats 3 times a day...sometimes 4. I feed roughly 1/4 cup wet/dry mix at each feeding with Creon given whole (wrapped in a tiny bit of pill pocket) immediately before he digs in. At lunch (2nd meal) I repeat exactly the same as breakfast and include an Ocu-GLO vitamin for his eyes. At dinner, I repeat the same but substitute B12 with intrinsic factor (i empty 1/2 of the capsule and mix directly into his food). If he wants a 4th meal late at night, I repeat without any added vitamins. I give treats within the hour after he eats, once per day.

Like your little one, Romeo also gets reflux. This only happens if he eats dinner early and his stomach stays empty too long (or he gets upset at something...boy Poms can be very emotional!!) To avoid from happening, I give him a small meal before bedtime. When food doesnt help, I give him 2.5mg of Pepcid AC on an empty stomach and this works wonders. I cut the 10mg pill into 4 pieces.

Hope this helps....and I'm sorry it took me a while to respond. I'm about to have surgery this coming Friday and lots of preparations to go through! If I don't respond, please PM me and I will get the notification from my emails.

Good luck to you and your little one.....such a cutie :)
Suzy - Greatful for finding this forum and meeting such nice and helpful people.

Romeo, DOB 04/23/2004- healthy weight 11.1 pounds (I should say overweight); EPI weight 5.8 Pounds :(..Currently 7.2 :)

11/18/13 results: TLI: 1.3 (5-35), diagnostic for EPI. Folate 17.2 (6.5-11.5). (Consistent with small intestinal bacterial overgrowth or vitamin supplementation). Cobalamin 458 (249-733)

Pepcid AC, 2.5 mg as needed

Update 11/2/2016 started using Creon 10,000. Update 1/7/2017...the Creon is working. Gained almost a pound in one month! Keeping fingers crossed :)

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Olesia711
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Re: Seeking info re Pomeranians or small dog regime

Post by Olesia711 » 16 Jan 2019, 23:08

Suzy, thanks so much for you suggestions for Kathy. Very Helpful.
Also... so sorry you have to have surgery ... and just wanted to let you know that you will be in our thoughts.... Wishing you a very speedy recovery.

Kathy... regarding preparing food ahead of time with the enzymes included when using wet food.... as you suspected... this is not something i would recommend... the reason being is when you prepare food with the enzymes... you need to add a little moisture to better spread the enzymes around, to avoid possible mouth sores. But also moisture is part of the needed activity process, not that the enzymes activate in a bowl of food, it really needs to be in the actual digestive system, it needs the right right temp, the right moisture, right pH, etc. and then the necessary activity starts happening.... but you really don't want moisture to get to the enzymes for any length of time before you are ready to use them. This is why it is recommended to keep them dry... and double seal when storing in the frig so that moisture does not get to them...........

If the interest in food starts fading .... as Madelon mentioned, it could be that the B12 is slipping.. how much B12 are you giving and what source?

OR......The other thing that could be happening is that his tummy is starting to hurt more now that you are trying to reduce the Omeprazole....tummy hurting is another reason why some of these dogs go off their food...............this is what i would consider first simply because of the chain of events that you mentioned in your post.
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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kcblock1
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Location: Cape Cod
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State: Massachusetts
Pet name: Zack

Re: Seeking info re Pomeranians or small dog regime

Post by kcblock1 » 21 Jan 2019, 22:56

Zack update
The little guy is doing fine. His loss of appetite has disappeared and he cleans his bowl. We tapered his Omeprazole to every other day but he is again spitting up gastric contents twice a day so we’ve gone back to a daily dose. We tried increasing his feedings to four tablespoons but think he does better on 3 1/2 per feeding. But his weight is stable, he has plenty of energy and his coat looks and feels normal.

Regarding preparing his food. Since he is on Royal Canin wet food, which is pretty moist, we have been sprinkling powder onto the room temp. food directly and mixing it in well, without first mixing the enzyme in water. We are waiting an hour before feeding. Not mixing enzyme in water first like you must do if using kibble. We mix several feedings ahead of time only when he goes to daycare or does a one night board.

Creating some dehydrated food treats so we do some basic training, so adding another variable

Currently trying to teach him some new behaviors as he shows annoyance at times, growling and showing his teeth. Might this be part of the EPI syndrome. 99% of the time he is just fine so perhaps because his previous owner never did any training he is just use to getting his way.
Kathy Crocker, Cape Cod, MA, USA, Zack is a 6 year old, 10 lb., Pomeranian dx on Nov 6,2018 with TLI of 2.5 after month of yellow cow patty stool. Lost one pound. Stool converted to normal immediately, main issue gastric reflux. Currently on Royal Canin wet food with bits of kibble, ProcreaPlusPowder, Tylan pinch 2xday, B12 injection monthly, weening off compounded Omeprazole. Also receives twice daily Phenobarbital for history of seizures.

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jilbert57
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Re: Seeking info re Pomeranians or small dog regime

Post by jilbert57 » 22 Jan 2019, 09:55

So glad to hear the great update! Low B12 can show in aggression or being owly growly. Have you thought of supplementing the B12 shots with B12 with Intrinsic Factor? It might help. I see from above posts B12 has been discussed in depth.

https://www.wonderlabs.com/itemleft.php?itemnum=K9688
My name is Jill and I live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. I have two dogs: Kiya is an aussie/blue heeler and is 13, TJ is a 4 year old Jack Russell. They keep me on my toes.
Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.
6/1999 - 8/2014

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