Dog is pooping very little, related to epi?

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AAAAHHHH
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Dog is pooping very little, related to epi?

Post by AAAAHHHH » 30 Dec 2018, 02:03

Our dog wasn't fully diagnosed with epi as her tli test result was 2.9, but she has been pooping much better for the past few days as we've been giving her enzyme and tylosin. I know for sure she also have SIBO because her stools were yellow, smelly and had mucus on them. Since yesterday she has been pooping very little, she's a huge german shepherd but she's only pooping 1-2 small logs every time for only 3-4 times a day. And today her poops were also very soft and runny. She's also been farting a lot but I assumed that could be due to SIBO. We've been feeding her 1/12 tsp of enzyme with about 1 pound of kibble 3 times a day, and she's been doing fine until 2 days ago. I can't think of any sudden changes we made to her diet recently. Just wondering has anyone else experienced this? I'm not sure if it's even caused by epi or SIBO, very confused.

AAAAHHHH
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Re: Dog is pooping very little, related to epi?

Post by AAAAHHHH » 30 Dec 2018, 02:20

Just to add some more information: my dad prepares food for the dog and he leaves the dissolved enzyme with the food for a really long time, like 7-8 hours. Not sure if this is a problem or not.

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Jean
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Re: Dog is pooping very little, related to epi?

Post by Jean » 30 Dec 2018, 04:42

hi there from Liverpool UK

few questions

food ratio to enzyme........is that 1/12 teaspoon of enzyme or 1/2 teaspoon ?

the American cup of food is I think 8 ounces, and requires 1 teaspoon of enzyme, therefore a pound of dry food would need 2 teaspoons

2.9 result is very close to being positive for EPI, therefore, I would treat as if it is

what food are you giving ?

leaving enzymes out for the dog for several hours isnt recommended, enzymes have a very short life cycle once introduced to food, maybe an hour, also the food could become infected with germs, and then SID/SIBO can have a really good time in the gut

How much Tylan are you giving, and how often , and what weight is she ?

keep a journal, and record anything, and everything

and ask away

Jean
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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Shirl D.
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Re: Dog is pooping very little, related to epi?

Post by Shirl D. » 30 Dec 2018, 09:38

I agree with Jean that leaving the food and the enzymes for that long could create problems. Some people have prepared the food in the morning and refrigerated it until evening with no problems; you just have to allow the food to warm up to room temperature again before you feed it. The farting quite possibly is SID (SIBO) like you said. When poops change like this, it can be a couple things. It could be that the amount of enzymes needs to be adjusted. As Jean said, with the powdered enzymes the recommended starting dose is 1 teaspoon per cup of food, mixed with lukewarm water and incubated for at least 20 minutes, but not more than 1 hour. It could be SID, which you are already addressing. It could be the food is not agreeing with her...what are you feeding? It should be low fiber, less than 4%. It could also be low B12. Was her B12 level checked? Low B12 is very common with EPI dogs, and it also frequently happens with non-EPI dogs if they've had chronic diarrhea. EPI dogs typically need their B12 to be in the upper normal range to really thrive. There are easy ways to supplement the B12, so I would find out from your vet if they checked, and exactly what the level was. The small amount of poop could possibly be because she is absorbing more of the nutrients from the food, but I would definitely keep an eye on it. If she's been extremely hungry, there's always the possibility she's eaten something she shouldn't have and is getting blocked up.

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jilbert57
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Re: Dog is pooping very little, related to epi?

Post by jilbert57 » 30 Dec 2018, 10:44

You mention SID several times but does your vet have your pup on an antibiotic to treat it, like Metronidazole(flagyl) or Tylan? What dog food are you feeding? Thanks
My name is Jill and I live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. I have two dogs: Kiya is an aussie/blue heeler and is 13, TJ is a 4 year old Jack Russell. They keep me on my toes.
Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.
6/1999 - 8/2014

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Olesia711
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Re: Dog is pooping very little, related to epi?

Post by Olesia711 » 30 Dec 2018, 16:18

HI,

i too just want to chime in to say that leaving food with enzymes mixed in for anything over an hour is a big "no-no"

THis will definitely make SID (previously called SIBO) a lot worse.............. as leaving food out with enzymes for a long time will not only invite nasty bacteria, but as Jean said, the enzymes can no longer work as they should ...............
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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Re: Dog is pooping very little, related to epi?

Post by Barb » 30 Dec 2018, 17:02

Hello, and welcome! I, too, am questioning the amount of enzymes being given. Here in the states, we usually measure 1 teaspoon per cup of kibble and then adjust from there. Too little enzymes will yield not-so-good poops. If you keep a daily journal of everything you are giving and the amounts, you may start to see some patterns you hadn't noticed.

I also agree that leaving enzymed food out for many hours can lead to trouble.....bacteria can grow and the enzymes may lose effectiveness. Putting them in the fridge and then allowing them to get to room temperature before feeding should work better.

You didn't mention B12 supplementation. Most dogs with EPI have low B12 and need to take supplements....either injections or B12 capsules with Intrinsic Factor from Wonderlabs. Our Kolby did not stabilize until we got his B12 levels up to the medium high range (600+)

The early stages of treatment are the hardest while you are trying to get everything balanced, so don't get discouraged. We have all been where you are. Ask any questions you have.

Barb

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Madelon
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Re: Dog is pooping very little, related to epi?

Post by Madelon » 30 Dec 2018, 21:20

Hi and welcome to our EPI family! If you could answer some of Jean's questions it will help us better be able to offer suggestions.

There are four cornerstones to managing EPI: Enzymes (most of use EnzymeDiane - her enzymes are 1/3 of the cost of the enzymes from the vet - your wallet will thank you! The recommended starting dose is 1tsp per cup of kibble, mix with 2-3oz luke warm water, mix in kibble and incubate 20-30 minutes before serving); B12 (EPI dogs need B12 supplementing for life as they need their B12 on the higher side of normal - you can either do shots or use WonderLabs Pet Factor B12 pills); Antibiotics (for SID which it sounds like your pup has - we recommend a 45 day course of Tylan and then slowly wean off - Metronidazole can have bad neurological side effects); Food (we recommend grain free with 4% fiber or less).

Keep a detailed journal of everything that goes in and everything that comes out - I highly recommend taking pictures of the poop. Don't worry we've all been where you are and we are all here to help guide you!
MADELON and Doc. DX EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
Test Results: (1st) 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; (2nd) 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; (3rd) 10/2015 TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4. Prior to DX: May 2014 (2mos) - DX coccidia/bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Dx SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May 2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop. Regimen: 4 cups Sport Dog Food Elite Herding - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 1/2tsp Slippery Elm 2xday; Multivitamin; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Salmon Oil

AAAAHHHH
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Re: Dog is pooping very little, related to epi?

Post by AAAAHHHH » 31 Dec 2018, 03:51

Thanks everyone for replying, I listened to your advices and told my dad to not leave her food with enzymes for more than an hour, and that's what he did today. Just to provide some more infos, we've been feeding her tylosin power with every meal for about 2 weeks now, her vitamin b 12 is in the low normal range and she just got a shot yesterday. All her other parameters are normal according to the vet. Her kibbles are the hypoallergenic ones from royal canine, we were raw feeding her but her stools were kind of slurry when she eats raw meat, we were worried it could be because she's not used to them so we switched back to kibbles. We are feeding her very small amount of enzymes because any more than that she starts to have uncontrolled diarrhea, Diane from enzyme diane told me it could be due to sibo or low vitamin b12, so we've decided to slowly increase the enzyme we give her as we are treating her for sibo and vitamin b12. Her poops had been very normal for the past week until the last couple of days. This morning she had normal sized stool again, so we thought it probably wasn't blockage, but then tonight it was bad again, she was straining to let out small amount of diarrhea and we're very confused. I'm thinking it could be constipation? But her normal poop from this morning doesn't look constipated.

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Jean
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Re: Dog is pooping very little, related to epi?

Post by Jean » 31 Dec 2018, 04:20

hi

how much Tylan are you giving ? and how many times a day? and what is her weight ? you said she is huge

what has the vet said about her struggling to poop, has this always been the case, or since enzymes were added

i understand you are concerned

Jean
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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