Low/normal TLI and mucus in stool?

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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IzzyandLeo

Low/normal TLI and mucus in stool?

Post by IzzyandLeo » 06 Aug 2019, 14:41

I am brand new to this forum and to EPI . Apologies in advance for the long post, but I am so confused about what is going on with my little girl, and would really appreciate your thoughts and hearing about your experiences.

Izzy is a wire fox terrier and is 13 years old. Last October she had emergency gallbladder removal, and after that she had several episodes of liver infections and pancreatitis. I believe she had pancreatitis for the majority of the time since October. The last episode was at the end of May, and throughout June she was sick and ended up losing a lot of weight (from 15 pounds to 12) – but she had not been eating much at all. We ended up feeding her through an esophageal tube. When she got well at the end of June, she had a voracious appetite and we were feeding her a lot, but she was not gaining weight. She had very loose stools – formed but very soft and hard to pick up. They were lighter in color, had a weird texture, and smelled horribly. She also had a lot of really foul smelling gas and loud tummy sounds.

We started her on VisbiomeVet probiotics about 2 weeks ago and she has been on Tylan powder for well over a month. Over the years she has always responded well to Tylan when she had soft stools. She was also on Metronidazole for a while. In early July, we took her back to the doctor due to her gas, diarrhea, and not gaining weight. The doctor did bloodwork – her cPL was high (729, so pancreatitis – though she showed no signs of it & ultrasound looked ok), her vitamin B was normal, Folate was high (26, high normal is 20, so suspect SIBO), and her TLI was 6.1 (cut-off is 5.7 so not really positive for EPI). However, the doctor suggested we try the enzymes. We got Pancreatin 6x from Enzyme Diane.

She’s only been on the enzymes a week, and though she did not test positive for EPI, she has appeared a little better. She seems a little less crazed about eating, her gas decreased to almost none, and her stools don’t smell so bad. The amount of stool also decreased – before it seemed like everything she ate went immediately right through her. However – while her stools seemed to be getting almost normal, I started to see a lot of mucus. Sometimes her stools would be encased with mucus, and other times they’d start off looking normal but be followed by a big dump of bright yellow jelly-like mucus at the end. Sometimes orangey mucus. Dr. said it was colitis. But with colitis you give fiber, and with SIBO and EPI you do not. So I don’t know what to do.

Yesterday morning, speaking with the Vet tech, she suggested I try stopping the enzymes to see what happened to Izzy’s stools. So yesterday, Izzy had her mid-day meal and dinner without enzymes. And late in the day she started having smelly gas again, and her stools got a lot softer – formed, but extremely soft (though I did not see any mucus). She can be sleeping and stool will just ooze out of her. So I started her back on the enzymes this morning. So far, still soft stools and smelly gas, but hopefully it will get better again. One other thing – being on the enzymes, there is an awful odor around her. I don’t know if it is on her breath, her muzzle, or what. But it smells sort of like vomit. I clean her muzzle after every meal. So I’d like to ask:
  • Has anyone put their dog on enzymes when their TLI was low normal?
  • Has anyone experienced a lot of mucus in their dog’s stool? If so, what did you do?
  • Has anyone else noticed an awful smell on their dog with the enzymes? Is it normal? Is it permanent?
  • And do the enzymes work that quickly – so that not giving them to her for one or two meals would set her back immediately?
Thank you all so much!

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Jean
Forum Director
Posts: 1707
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: Low/normal TLI and mucus in stool?

Post by Jean » 06 Aug 2019, 14:49

what was low /normal results, and was it a 12 hour food fasted cTLI TEST

i ask Jill who has experienced Pancreatitis

to jump in

j
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

IzzyandLeo

Re: Low/normal TLI and mucus in stool?

Post by IzzyandLeo » 06 Aug 2019, 15:19

She had fasted 12 hours - her TLI was 6.1 and the lab range was 5.7 to 45.2

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jilbert57
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Posts: 2129
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Low/normal TLI and mucus in stool?

Post by jilbert57 » 06 Aug 2019, 17:15

Hi.
What food are you feeding, how much at each meal ?

How much enzyme are you using and how are you preparing it with the enzymes?

When Mickey got pancreatitis after surgery, it turned to Chronic. He had mucous covering his poop. When I joined this group in 2012 it was a Godsend. I got enzymes from enzyme diane, implemented the tylan for the mucous covering his poops and the ill formed piles became nicely formed and the mucous left. I kept him on a 2x/day dose of Tylan for life. He ate Hills prescription I/D kibble. He had a impacted gall bladder so was also on Ursodiol to thin the bile.

I am thinking the orange mucous might be due to the fact the gall bladder was removed there is no storage area now for bile so it is constantly leaking. Have the liver enzymes recently been checked?
Mucous can also mean a too fast transit.

Mickeys cPl stayed above 800 and we eventually stopped testing. When diagnosed his Tli was >50 but eventually settled at 25 after enzymes and Tylan had been implemented.

https://www.caninejournal.com/dog-poop-color/
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

IzzyandLeo

Re: Low/normal TLI and mucus in stool?

Post by IzzyandLeo » 06 Aug 2019, 17:28

Izzy is on Royal Canin Gastrointestinal Low Fat diet - dry. I feed her 1/2 cup three times a day. I have been giving her 1/8 teaspoon on her 1/2 cup of kibble. Since her TLI was in the normal range (6.1) I hesitated to start her at a regular dose of 1/2 to 1 teaspoon per cup, but maybe she does need more. I dampen the dry kibble first, sprinkle the 1/8 teaspoon of enzymes on it, then pour in a very little bit of warm water to get it mixed well. At first I incubated for 20 minutes, but increased it to 30 - 40 minutes. She gets no other food/treats - never gets into anything.

Tylan has always been magical, but she just isn't responding to it this time - and she's been on it a very long time (well over a month). She's also on Ursodiol to thin her bile. And the Visbiome Vet probiotic. I just don't know what I'm dealing with - EPI, SIBO, colitis, a combo or all of the above!

Tuckaboo Pam
Member
Posts: 1390
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: Low/normal TLI and mucus in stool?

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 06 Aug 2019, 18:43

I am newish, and I can tell you, you have come to the right place. The people on this forum should be given honorary DVMs, in my opinion. The smell Izzy is exuding is the the only thing I can respond to. Since starting enzymes, Tucker smells like dirty tennis shoes, and I believe it is coming from his mouth. However, since I started following directions of the ladies who run this forum, and started marinating the enzymes with warm water & dog food for at least twenty minutes before I feed him---I do believe the smell has subsided. Best Regards, Pam
Tucker was a shepherd mix--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Diane's Enzymes 4 t/day, B12 1 capsule/day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon/day. Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 4 c/day. 60 to 85 pounds! Tucker succumbed to hemangiosarcoma Nov. 2023. I will always, always miss my sweet big boy.

Now there's Nina. 5 year old GSD. TLI 1.0 B12 323. We are still tweaking her routine, and getting lots of help from the forum. She is klutzy and goofy, and we love her dearly, too.

IzzyandLeo

Re: Low/normal TLI and mucus in stool?

Post by IzzyandLeo » 06 Aug 2019, 18:46

The response is wonderful. I found the link on Enzyme Diane.

Do you mix the enzymes with water and then pour over the food and incubate? Or put the enzyme powder on the food and then add water and incubate?

And I've been incubating - up to 40 minutes - and Izzy is still SOOOO stinky!

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jilbert57
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Posts: 2129
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Low/normal TLI and mucus in stool?

Post by jilbert57 » 06 Aug 2019, 18:50

I would start with 1/2 teaspoon enzyme per 1/2 cup kibble. Do that for each meal for about a week to see if that helps. The enzyme amount is based on the amount of food given.

I do know I was to watch for vomiting, lethargy and diarrhea when Mick was on Ursodiol. He never had an issue . Maybe it is not agreeing.



Tylan and the probiotic should be given 2 hours apart.

I put the enzyme over the food, add water, stir well then let set. Stir again before serving.

My dog continued to smell like vomit 2 to 3 months.

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

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