New Member Introduction- Help needed
New Member Introduction- Help needed
Hi all,
I have a 7yo Flat Coated Retriever bitch, Jazz, who we thought for years had a sensitive tummy. After numerous vets visits and a recent, lengthy bout of sickness including weight loss we have finally had her diagnosed for EPI, with a Tli of 1.3 and all other measures normal. She started a course of Lypex last night, 2 capsules sprinkled in her evening kibble (Purina EN) and overnight her upset tum seems to have got worse, lots of rumbling and flatulence. Her stools this morning were very loose, almost liquid.
Appreciate these are early days but any knowledge of this drug or other advice would really help. Our local vets are a bit clueless so considering pushing for a referral ASAP.
Thanks, Ian
I have a 7yo Flat Coated Retriever bitch, Jazz, who we thought for years had a sensitive tummy. After numerous vets visits and a recent, lengthy bout of sickness including weight loss we have finally had her diagnosed for EPI, with a Tli of 1.3 and all other measures normal. She started a course of Lypex last night, 2 capsules sprinkled in her evening kibble (Purina EN) and overnight her upset tum seems to have got worse, lots of rumbling and flatulence. Her stools this morning were very loose, almost liquid.
Appreciate these are early days but any knowledge of this drug or other advice would really help. Our local vets are a bit clueless so considering pushing for a referral ASAP.
Thanks, Ian
- Jean
- Forum Director
- Posts: 1707
- Location: South Liverpool
- Country: United Kingdom - England
- Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
- My name: Jean
Re: New Member Introduction- Help needed
Hi Ian and Jazz
where are you in UK
We are in Liverpool
if you want to talk by phone
0151 726 1468
I am afraid that the Lypex isnt a course, its for life, but there are less expensive enzymes around
what about antibiotics for the tummy rumbles
EPI was known as Shepherd tummy for along time and dogs were PTS as the vets didnt have a clue
this is the ingredients for Purina EN: Maize Rice*, Maize Gluten Meal*, Dehydrated Poultry Protein*, Dried Beet Pulp, Digest, Coconut Oil* (4%), Minerals, Animal Fat, Mono and Diglycerides, Soya Oil, Fish Oil, Inulin, *Highly digestible ingredients.
Nutrition: Analytical Constituents, Protein: 24.0%, Fat content: 10.5%, Crude ash: 6.0%, Crude fibres: 2.0%, Sodium: 0.30%, Potassium: 0.65%, Medium chain fatty acids: 2.0%, Additives: Nutritional Additives IU/kg: Vit A: 30 000, Vit D3: 1 000, Vit E: 560,mg/kg: Vit C: 140, Ferrous sulphate monohydrate: 240, Calcium iodate anhydrous: 3.4, Cupric sulphate pentahydrate: 45, Manganous sulphate monohydrate: 100, Zinc sulphate monohydrate: 410, Sodium selenite: 0.28.ents of Purina EN
There is no need for a special vet diet for EPI unless there is another condition
how many meals do you feed per day ?
did the vets tell you that no food of any sort can be given without enzymes ?
we advise grain and rice free, low fibre, most of our dogs are intollerant of chicken and/or its derivatives
Anyway, I am at the end of the phone
keep a journal on everything you do daily
jean
where are you in UK
We are in Liverpool
if you want to talk by phone
0151 726 1468
I am afraid that the Lypex isnt a course, its for life, but there are less expensive enzymes around
what about antibiotics for the tummy rumbles
EPI was known as Shepherd tummy for along time and dogs were PTS as the vets didnt have a clue
this is the ingredients for Purina EN: Maize Rice*, Maize Gluten Meal*, Dehydrated Poultry Protein*, Dried Beet Pulp, Digest, Coconut Oil* (4%), Minerals, Animal Fat, Mono and Diglycerides, Soya Oil, Fish Oil, Inulin, *Highly digestible ingredients.
Nutrition: Analytical Constituents, Protein: 24.0%, Fat content: 10.5%, Crude ash: 6.0%, Crude fibres: 2.0%, Sodium: 0.30%, Potassium: 0.65%, Medium chain fatty acids: 2.0%, Additives: Nutritional Additives IU/kg: Vit A: 30 000, Vit D3: 1 000, Vit E: 560,mg/kg: Vit C: 140, Ferrous sulphate monohydrate: 240, Calcium iodate anhydrous: 3.4, Cupric sulphate pentahydrate: 45, Manganous sulphate monohydrate: 100, Zinc sulphate monohydrate: 410, Sodium selenite: 0.28.ents of Purina EN
There is no need for a special vet diet for EPI unless there is another condition
how many meals do you feed per day ?
did the vets tell you that no food of any sort can be given without enzymes ?
we advise grain and rice free, low fibre, most of our dogs are intollerant of chicken and/or its derivatives
Anyway, I am at the end of the phone
keep a journal on everything you do daily
jean
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk
I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of
My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day
Lowest weight 39 pounds
We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules
Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM
Jeanx
I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of
My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day
Lowest weight 39 pounds
We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules
Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM
Jeanx
Re: New Member Introduction- Help needed
Hi Jean,
Will give you a call over the weekend if thats ok ?
Will give you a call over the weekend if thats ok ?
- Jean
- Forum Director
- Posts: 1707
- Location: South Liverpool
- Country: United Kingdom - England
- Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
- My name: Jean
Re: New Member Introduction- Help needed
Ian , whenever, just leave your number if I am not at home, or tell me when, so I will be
speak soon
Jean
speak soon
Jean
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk
I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of
My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day
Lowest weight 39 pounds
We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules
Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM
Jeanx
I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of
My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day
Lowest weight 39 pounds
We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules
Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM
Jeanx
Re: New Member Introduction- Help needed
Hello to you and Jazz from Sheffield. Flat coated retrievers are beautiful. At last you have the diagnosis , so you will gradually get a full return to condition , once the effects of malnutrition are beaten. It seems heavy going at first, but becomes a routine.
Enzymes are for ever, with occasional bouts of B12 deficiency and SID/SIBO.
Lypex is very good to start with because it is tasteless. You will need at least two per meal, as you said. It’s best to feed three meals per day at first, as you need to feed an extra50% of food to help get up to correct weight. That’s why most us us have to use a cheaper option, unless insurance will pay.
Rumbling and smelly farts are definitely a small intestine bug. As soon as my dog started , I went to my vet and requested antibiotics. As Jean will explain, tylan is not on most vets radar, but oxytetracycline worked fine for us, and it has to be double the standard treatment length, ie 4 weeks.
Jazz is certain to need this before you can expect a good poo.
The Purina food is not suitable for epi. The cereals feed the bacteria= diarrhoea. What food did you use before that? We tend to avoid any chicken ingredients as well. Other meat and fish should be ok. Many brands however smuggle chicken into the mix. I couldn’t find anything suitable for us in shops.
My favourite was from Millie’s Wolfheart, online. There is a wide choice of grain free food with different meat/fish, and they are happy to discuss them. Get a small bag at first.
As you know, few vets have seen epi, it is rare in the UK, outside of German shepherds. See if yours is reading up the research, and be polite but pro active. You will need a long relationship with one. You are employing them, they aren’t doing you a favour . When my good vet left, I was desperate, and took a while to find another one. I actually rang up to speak to the senior vets. The older vets were much better, the young ones are too focussed on unnecessary tests, and don’t see that the side effects of the epi condition will actually repair themselves without extra drugs or expensive procedures. Also it helps to request seeing the same person.
Should you want a referral, Jean will advise who is best, wherever you live.
Four cornerstones
Enzymes
Food. Low fibre
B12 at 600
Antibiotics for SID
Enzymes are for ever, with occasional bouts of B12 deficiency and SID/SIBO.
Lypex is very good to start with because it is tasteless. You will need at least two per meal, as you said. It’s best to feed three meals per day at first, as you need to feed an extra50% of food to help get up to correct weight. That’s why most us us have to use a cheaper option, unless insurance will pay.
Rumbling and smelly farts are definitely a small intestine bug. As soon as my dog started , I went to my vet and requested antibiotics. As Jean will explain, tylan is not on most vets radar, but oxytetracycline worked fine for us, and it has to be double the standard treatment length, ie 4 weeks.
Jazz is certain to need this before you can expect a good poo.
The Purina food is not suitable for epi. The cereals feed the bacteria= diarrhoea. What food did you use before that? We tend to avoid any chicken ingredients as well. Other meat and fish should be ok. Many brands however smuggle chicken into the mix. I couldn’t find anything suitable for us in shops.
My favourite was from Millie’s Wolfheart, online. There is a wide choice of grain free food with different meat/fish, and they are happy to discuss them. Get a small bag at first.
As you know, few vets have seen epi, it is rare in the UK, outside of German shepherds. See if yours is reading up the research, and be polite but pro active. You will need a long relationship with one. You are employing them, they aren’t doing you a favour . When my good vet left, I was desperate, and took a while to find another one. I actually rang up to speak to the senior vets. The older vets were much better, the young ones are too focussed on unnecessary tests, and don’t see that the side effects of the epi condition will actually repair themselves without extra drugs or expensive procedures. Also it helps to request seeing the same person.
Should you want a referral, Jean will advise who is best, wherever you live.
Four cornerstones
Enzymes
Food. Low fibre
B12 at 600
Antibiotics for SID
Springer spaniel Marti had Epi, PLE , MMM just to confuse me. She lived till 12yrs, chubby and happy despite eight years of epi.
Capsule enzymes suited her best. B12 supplements made her into a new dog!
After a cocker with PLN kidney disease, I now have two healthy rescues, a lively, suicidal , small ginger terrier, adopted with pneumonia, and gum disease needing nearly all his teeth out, and a fluffy grey toy poodle/terrier from Greece.
Capsule enzymes suited her best. B12 supplements made her into a new dog!
After a cocker with PLN kidney disease, I now have two healthy rescues, a lively, suicidal , small ginger terrier, adopted with pneumonia, and gum disease needing nearly all his teeth out, and a fluffy grey toy poodle/terrier from Greece.
Re: New Member Introduction- Help needed
Many thanks indeed for all the advice. She has made no progress this week on the standard Lypex dose and when I tried to increase yesterday she ended up vomiting everything up during the night. I now have a referral to a specialist on Monday so fingers crossed
Re: New Member Introduction- Help needed
Will be waiting to hear what the specialist has to say.
Jill
Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.
Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014
Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.
Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014
Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.
- Jean
- Forum Director
- Posts: 1707
- Location: South Liverpool
- Country: United Kingdom - England
- Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
- My name: Jean
Re: New Member Introduction- Help needed
GIVE ME A RING AND WE WILL TALK IT THROUGH
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk
I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of
My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day
Lowest weight 39 pounds
We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules
Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM
Jeanx
I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of
My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day
Lowest weight 39 pounds
We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules
Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM
Jeanx
Re: New Member Introduction- Help needed
I hope you catch Jean on the phone , she’s not the least bit intimidating! You name it, Kara had it, and Jeans vet is one of the top gastrointestinal experts in the country.
From my experience, Lypex never caused vomiting, so there may be something else happening.it could be a gut infection, acid indigestion, the food or something else. There could even be a rare pork allergy.
Lypex, like most epi products, is not a drug, but natural gut enzymes, made from pigs pancreas. It doesn’t cause violent reactions. Sometimes a large dose can cause too much digestive activity in the intestines, resulting in diarrhoea. Vomiting is from the stomach, where there is a lot of acid.(Hydrochloric) Jean knows all about treating that.
There are over the counter remedies for acid indigestion/heartburn, but check with Jean. it can be very painful for humans and dogs.
With epi, patience is essential. Each niggly thing can be fixed in turn.
From my experience, Lypex never caused vomiting, so there may be something else happening.it could be a gut infection, acid indigestion, the food or something else. There could even be a rare pork allergy.
Lypex, like most epi products, is not a drug, but natural gut enzymes, made from pigs pancreas. It doesn’t cause violent reactions. Sometimes a large dose can cause too much digestive activity in the intestines, resulting in diarrhoea. Vomiting is from the stomach, where there is a lot of acid.(Hydrochloric) Jean knows all about treating that.
There are over the counter remedies for acid indigestion/heartburn, but check with Jean. it can be very painful for humans and dogs.
With epi, patience is essential. Each niggly thing can be fixed in turn.
Springer spaniel Marti had Epi, PLE , MMM just to confuse me. She lived till 12yrs, chubby and happy despite eight years of epi.
Capsule enzymes suited her best. B12 supplements made her into a new dog!
After a cocker with PLN kidney disease, I now have two healthy rescues, a lively, suicidal , small ginger terrier, adopted with pneumonia, and gum disease needing nearly all his teeth out, and a fluffy grey toy poodle/terrier from Greece.
Capsule enzymes suited her best. B12 supplements made her into a new dog!
After a cocker with PLN kidney disease, I now have two healthy rescues, a lively, suicidal , small ginger terrier, adopted with pneumonia, and gum disease needing nearly all his teeth out, and a fluffy grey toy poodle/terrier from Greece.
Re: New Member Introduction- Help needed
Welcome! You are in good hands with Jean and Patsy in the UK. Try not to feel too overwhelmed. It will get better. Jean and Patsy will help you get there. Your pup is lucky to have you.
Barb
Barb
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