Enzymes help for puppy

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
C.U.pup
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Posts: 27
Country: United Kingdom - Wales
Pet name: Dash
My name: Leonard

Re: Enzymes help for puppy

Post by C.U.pup » 21 Aug 2018, 10:05

That's great thanks for that olesia ;) didn't realise they may be option that dash still may not be classed as an e i p dog in the future but his vet will re look at it in few months
Tk
just started dash on the pancreatic powder on Monday sprinkled it on to his food the vet just suggested a pinch on each meal but I'm measuring it out with some spoons as I want to be more accurate then can control the amount to see if it needs adjusting since he's been on the increase tablets managed to put on 30g super stoked about that :D :D :D

His poop are very hit and miss they sometimes come out part formed and then we time he's finished continues to be a cow pat then the next one is a mess then he will have half and half if any of that makes sense.

His vet wants a week of consistent good poops then he might be able to have his frist puppy vacs fingers crossed .

That's very reassuring to hear miss Maddy moo that's very hopefully he can continue into a healthy adult dog in time and order some multi vitamins and probiotics not quite sure how the pics work but he certainly doesn't look at is best :|

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jilbert57
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Re: Enzymes help for puppy

Post by jilbert57 » 21 Aug 2018, 10:41

Glad to hear he has gained a little. Give the enzymes a time to work and if the poop is not firmed up by 10 days or so may need to treat SID with Tylan or metro if he is not on it already. Good luck.
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

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Olesia711
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Re: Enzymes help for puppy

Post by Olesia711 » 21 Aug 2018, 12:23

Hi Leonard....
Dash most likely is an EPI pup... but because he is so very, very young... i'd heed what the researchers say about very young puppies....... just in case (even thou the chance is slim- -it is still a possibility) and re-test in the future (maybe at 6 months or so. Do talk to your vet about this.

Also... EXCELLENT to measure the enzymes that will be really helpful to you.

Those "iffy" poos.... could be that you need to play around with the enzyme dose a little more... (like increasing the amount)....
and your vet is correct... give it a little time to see if this works.......

BUT............. if after a few weeks and a few more trials with various doses of enzymes..... if you are still seeing sometimes sloppy poos, sometimes good poos ... or half & half poos... (we've seen it all :o ) then i can almost guarantee what you are seeing is not that the enzymes are not working.... they are working... but instead what you are seeing is most likely SID (small intestinal dysbiosis). Please read the entire SID page .... cause that will be the next step that you and your vet will have to address.


Just a personal story to share with your. When my gal was diagnosed at 1+yr old with EPI. Vet put her on the right enzymes, the right food, and Metronidazole antibiotic.... i saw NO improvement for 2 whole weeks. Vet got upset as this should be working and wasn't. Well..... he stopped the Metronidazole antibiotic and put her on Tylan antibiotic.... within 24 hr she finally had normal perfectly formed poo and started improving dramatically every single day after that.

Sharing this to let you know sometimes it is just one itty-bitty change that will make all the difference in the world.... and that is what we will help you and your vet work thru if need be.
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

C.U.pup
Member
Posts: 27
Country: United Kingdom - Wales
Pet name: Dash
My name: Leonard

Re: Enzymes help for puppy

Post by C.U.pup » 08 Sep 2018, 05:26

:( hi thank you for the previous advice Dadh has finally started his first vaccination course but unfortunately it has put in backwards in terms of his IBD and his poop
So have to tweet around with his enzymes and now he hasn't got any undigested food coming out but still a big sloppy mess his vet has now put it back on to the Metronidazole antibiotic for 10 days in an attempt to try and stabilize him again he's only going once or twice a day which is great compared to before but just can't get that tiny bit sorted out and he feed up with having his little butt washed but haven't got a lot of choice with white dogs lol just had a second course today but this time going to be on antibiotics from the start .....
His vet won't ues the tyl one says it not for use in dog's :cry:

Still only put a about 20 grams of weight on but hasn't lost so grateful for that just frustrating and as both thanks again Leonard

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Olesia711
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Location: North Carolina
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My name: olesia

Re: Enzymes help for puppy

Post by Olesia711 » 08 Sep 2018, 10:48

Sorry to hear that you are still battling sloppy poos - -but that could be partly agitated by the vaccines .... or not.... jsut never know with these dogs.

Regarding the Tylan powder...yes is was initially designed for chickens, honey bees and pigs.... HOWEVER.... please share with your vet that they DO use it with dogs (and cats) now with great success. Problem with Metro is that with SID (small intestinal dysbiosis) many times Metronidazole does not work as well as expected on SID or at all, Metro kills ALL the bacteria... and dogs can develop Metronidazole toxicity all of a sudden (displays with neurological issues- -but easily fixed by simply stopping the metro or by administering valium) HOWEVER... with Tylan, it is a macrolide antibiotic, does not kill all bacteria (just inhibits reproduction) and there is no toxicity. Tylan usually (but not always) works better on SID than Metro and is safer.... BUT.... i understand perfectly why your vet is saying it is not for dog... because he is correct.... it wasn't designed for dogs.... HOWEVER... much research has been done and vets are now using Tylan antibiotic powder.

Please feel free to share all this SID research with your vet:

https://epi4dogs.com/antibiotics/
https://epi4dogs.com/sid-sibo-microbiome-research/

Also....If your vet is interested in pursuing more current information about Tylan Soluble powde/ 100 gramsr for dogs in the UK, please have him directly contact the Bristol Vet School for a consult in EPi and a prescription for Tylan powder for SID (SIBO). http://www.bristol.ac.uk/vetscience/

folks in the UK….. can get Tylan from the following places…. with a prescription from your vet

1. http://www.viovet.co.uk/Tylan_Antibiotic/c323/

2. http://www.myvetmeds.co.uk/tylan-soluble-100g.htm


The good news is that you live in the UK and your vet has access to Oxytetracycline which is actually the better antibiotic to treat SID.... i think in the UK they now call it Oxytet.... .... so...just in case Metro doesn't appear to take care of the SID (and it might which would be wonderful- -so give it a chance!) but just know that you and your vet have other options if it doesn.t work.

good read:
https://www.vin.com/apputil/content/def ... pid=12886
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

C.U.pup
Member
Posts: 27
Country: United Kingdom - Wales
Pet name: Dash
My name: Leonard

Re: Enzymes help for puppy

Post by C.U.pup » 08 Sep 2018, 11:19

That's great thank you loads of Fab info I'll definitely will share it with his vets
Dash is due back in 10 days time after he's finished this course of Metronidazole antibiotic he was on them for about 4 weeks then the enzyme powder seem to be the missing ingredients but then the vaccinations just knocked him sideways...
But definitely reassuring to know there's other options not hit a brick wall yet
:? Got no idea when he will start to put more weight on but he's not losing so that's got to be a positive.
I guess with vet's things are just very black and white and if they haven't typically use that type of medication for a dog then there not willing to
just better education or maybe persuasion with the handy links may Help
Or will ask if the Oxytet may be an option
If he get no improvement

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TankTank
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Re: Enzymes help for puppy

Post by TankTank » 10 Sep 2018, 19:57

Tylan interesting, how much would say an 82 pound 2 year old GSD need if sid were to act up. I have the scarry one on hand and no valium should there be a problem.

Poops are good 2 mostly sometimes between 3 and 2.

But good to have a supply in case of flare ups. I actually thought bad things are going to happen when we were missing a hamberg bun a few weeks ago.
Tank GSD Born jul 22 16, diag EPI 22 months, TLI 06/08/18 b12 181,folate 22 TLI <1, TLI 08/15/18 b12 423 folate 12 TLI <1.0, Acana Lamb 2c 1c 2c mixed with 4 2 4 ounces fresh beef pancreas,liquified and mixed room temp, 6 hours, fortiflana probiotic, monthly b12 8cc, highest weight 93lbs(too chunky)lowest 73, current 82. Hate this disease.

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Madelon
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Re: Enzymes help for puppy

Post by Madelon » 10 Sep 2018, 21:52

Here is the link to the dosing information for Tylan on the website https://epi4dogs.com/antibiotics/
If the poops are mostly 2 and 3, I personally would try Slippery Elm Bark Powder before an antibiotic - here's a link to the Slippery Elm dosing from our website https://epi4dogs.com/slippery-elm/. My boy is now on a maintenance of 1/2tsp SE in the am and pm and we've been having the best poops ever.
Madelon, owned by DOC. DOC dx EPI 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24. DOC taught me so much and together we battled and overcame EPI, food sensitivies, environmental allergies but we lost the cancer battle. DOC was dx with hemangiosarcoma 5/2022 and crossed the rainbow bridge July 24, 2022. He is and always will be the love of my life, my soulmate, my heart dog.

C.U.pup
Member
Posts: 27
Country: United Kingdom - Wales
Pet name: Dash
My name: Leonard

Re: Enzymes help for puppy

Post by C.U.pup » 11 Sep 2018, 07:42

Thanks for the information slightly confused on the poohs being two to three no idea :roll: don't think my vet will prescribe the Tylan
There definitely against prescribing it for dash but the slippery elm maybe an idea do I need prescription for this also or is it best to run it back my vets :?:

Also this may sound really crazy but I swear the enzymes are making dash stink :shock:

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Riley's Mom
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Re: Enzymes help for puppy

Post by Riley's Mom » 11 Sep 2018, 08:45

You do not need a prescription for Slippery Elm, many of us get it on Amazon, but get loose powder, not capsules.
As far as the Tylan, print up the research to take to your vet, maybe this will help them understand and decide about Tylan.
And YES, share everything we suggest/discuss with your vet!
As far as the smell, yes! When first starting enzymes, many dogs smell horrible. My girl did. She smelled like a combination between cat pee and sour vomit. Truly horrible. It did finally go away, but it took a while. My suggestion is to wash Dash's bedding frequently and bathe him as often as his skin will tolerate.
Elisabeth

Riley is a 10 year old Labradoodle. She was diagnosed with EPI in 2014.
She currently eats Taste of the Wild, I cup in the morning, 2 cups in the evening, each meal with 1 Wonderlabs B12 sprinkled over her dinner. Enzymes are EnzymeDiane, 1 tsp per cup of food, mixed in home made bone broth. No other supplements or meds at this time.
Riley currently weighs about 44 pounds, which is pretty heavy for her.

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