Epi4Dogs

Hello! First just let me say what a relief it has been to find this forum! My vet and the shelter I adopted Johnny from were able to give me the basics of his condition and how to manage it, but nothing anywhere near as detailed as what I've been able to find here. Thank you!!!

Johnny was diagnosed in October at the shelter, and he's gained about thirteen pounds since then, but still a long way to go to get to his ideal weight. He's been home with me for about a month now and it's certainly been a learning process, but I think we're taking another step forward every day.

My biggest questions right now are:

1.) Right now I am feeding Johnny Solid Gold Sensitive Stomach dry food 1-2x a day, as well as a wet foods 1-2x a day. Would you recommend anything different? My vet suggested I change the food based on the fat content, but it is at least grain free (fiber 4%). I've been incubating the enzymes at each meal.
2.) My vet doesn't carry enzymes so I had to order them online - I ordered a 12oz bottle of Pancreplus. I'll be switching to EnzymeDiane after I get through what I already ordered. Until the prescription enzymes get here, I've been using a plant enzyme powder which I know is not enough. Is there something else that would be better for me to use in the meantime? I will make sure to order well in advance in the future!
3.) I know I need to be supplementing B12 (Johnny tested low in the shelter and I took him in for his last injection a couple of weeks ago) but my vet didn't mention anything about it when I took him in to get his prescriptions filled. When I take him back in, what specifically should I ask for? Just a B12 test and recommended dosage?

Thank you guys so much! I know these are probably basic questions so I apologize for the trouble... just trying to wrap my head around everything and give this sweet dog the life he deserves! He's an amazing soul and I already love him so much.

Hi, Mackenzie, from Pam & Tucker in FL. How good you are, to adopt a dog, knowing he has this condition. You'll get answers to your questions from somebody on staff, but I just wanted to say welcome! It sounds like you've got a good jump on this thing. You can read the bottom of my response, to see what has worked for my dog. I buy the B12 from Amazon. How are Johnnycake's poops? Give as much information as you can, keep a diary, ask every single question you can think of, and check back here for answers to your questions & help with any problems that may arise. Happy New Year!

A huge welcome from me in the UK

You ask ANYTHING

The four thigs you need to consider are

Food

preferably 4% fibre or less, most of our dogs do not tolerate chicken , and chicken or poultry fat, the fat content is not an issue unless the animal has another condition

I had a quick look at the food you mention and they have chicken fat, however, he has put 13 pounds of weight on

are his poo's formed

if he has lost a fair bit of weight, we recommend you feed 50% over and above what the bag of food says for the weight he SHOULD be over a few meals a day , all enzymed

this is only short term

what weight is he and what weight do you think he should be

B12

this is essential to digestion

https://www.petmd.com/dog/wellness/evr_ ... py_for_epi

the injections should be then generic type , dark pink in colour

you can supplement this with

https://www.wonderlabs.com/itemleft.php?itemnum=K9688

it would be useful for you to know what his levels are, and it is with blood draw after 8-12 hours food fasted, and specific , ask for Folate to be tested too

Antibiotics

we recommend , if necessary, Tylan which is weight dosed

https://epi4dogs.com/antibiotics/

does he have any tummy rumbles ?

Enzymes

Most people use Enzyme Diane and there is great success , and she is very approachable having had her own EPI dog

I think maybe thats enough for you for now

keep a detailed log/ diary on anything and everyting you do or change, and change one thing at a time so you know what works

he is so gorgeous and that jumper is fab

Good luck


Jeanx

Hi Mackenzie and Johnny - welcome to our EPI family! OMG Johnny is simply too cute and thank you for rescuing that sweet boy!

Glad you'll be ordering the enzymes from Diane in the future - you're wallet will thank you As for B12, if you haven't been supplementing then I would have the vet test it to see where you're at. EPI dogs need B12 supplementing for life and most of us use WonderLabs B12 Pet Factor https://www.wonderlabs.com/newshowitems ... factor+b12 - use the code EPI4DOGS15 at check out and you'll get 15% off of your order.

As for the food, while the fiber is okay at 4% there are a lot of pea ingredients in the food which don't agree with most EPI dogs. However, if the poop is good on that food then I would stick with it. If the poop is not optimal then I would definitely consider switching to one that doesn't have so many peas in the ingredients. Here is a link to our dog food option page with a list of foods that have worked well for other EPI owners over the years https://epi4dogs.com/dog-food-options/

Keep a detailed journal of everything you give and the resulting poop - it will help you figure out what works and what doesn't. And never apologize for asking questions, it is the reason this organization was created

Hi MacKenzie and Johnny,

You have been given excellent advice, but I just want to welcome you and thank you for opening your home and heart to Johnny. He is absolutely adorable. You are askng all the right questions. We all remember what it feels like to be at the beginning of this process. You are doing great Johnny is lucky to have found you.

Barb

i too wanted to welcome you and Johnny. He is a REAL cutie and is doing so well already... Kudos to you!

It appears that your questions (for now) have been answered.... looking forward to hearing Johnny updates!

And PLEASE feel free to ask us anything we will do our best to answer/help you and Johnny on your EPI journey.

Thank you all so much for the warm welcome! I really appreciate it!!!

His poops are definitely better on the EnzymeDiane (I went ahead and ordered it since my other order got cancelled), he's getting 2 tsps per cup of food right now. I would say they're about a 3.5 on the poop chart, still squishy but they do have shape and they're much easier to pick up. So not perfect, but better than when he was having pure liquid poops. I can definitely try out a different food and see if that helps! He's only really had one really good poop since I adopted him so a change in diet might be a good idea.

I did have a couple other questions I thought of:

1.) Generally speaking, are most EPI dogs lower energy animals or are they about what you would expect for their breed/age? Johnny is just about the calmest, most laidback young dog I've ever met, and he's definitely perked up a lot since treatment started. He does tire out pretty easily though and I would say he has low-moderate exercise needs - he's definitely a mutt (heeler/Great Pyrenees if I had to guess, but we'll see when his DNA test comes back!) so I wasn't sure if it's just how he is, or if it's something I should be keeping an eye on in regards to the EPI.

2.) Second, ever since starting the EnzymeDiane he's been a lot more selective about his food - he'll only eat wet food if he's really hungry, and he won't eat treated kibble at all unless it's mixed in with a lot of wet food. I have a feeling maybe I'm either not mixing it in right, or just not disguising the taste well enough, if that's what he doesn't like. I'll read through some more stuff here and see what I find but let me know if you guys have any ideas!

Thank you all again so much, I really appreciate it! Johnny got so excited at the park yesterday and got major zoomies while playing with me, that's by the far the most energy I've seen him have and it made me really happy to witness.

I forgot to add (sorry) he is currently 43 pounds, I've been told he should likely reach around 60 or 70. He's still really skinny, you can see his ribs and all his bones protruding, but he looked like an absolute skeleton when he was brought into the shelter so it's at least an improvement!

Good morning! Johnny is so cute.
You might try using the recommended enzyme dose of 1 level teaspoon enzyme per 1 cup kibble. Too much enzyme as well as too little can have an effect on the poops. Have you tried letting the food incubate a little longer? Try 20 minutes then stir well. Maybe sprinkle a little stinky parmesan on top.

Your pup should be full of energy once things get all in place but he is still underweight . Maybe try adding a meal before bed? We recommend feeding 150% of the recommended amount for his weight on the back of the dog food sack.

Is his B12 up around 600 or higher? I would order the B12 caps mentioned by Jean in the below link and supplement.

The food you are feeding, is it the salmon? If so it contains chickpeas. Peas, lentils and pea fiber for the 2nd, 3rd and 4th ingredients which might not be faring so well on the tummy.

Jill

Hi again! If you are using 2tsp enzymes per 1 cup of food that is way too much and as Jill said that will can cause the poop to be bad as well as using too little enzyme. So I would start with our recommended dose of 1tsp per cup of kibble. If you are feeding wet food then start with 3/4tsp per cup. With the food you are on there are A LOT of peas/legumes so you might need a tad more than 1tsp per cup but start with that first.

As far as energy, a lot of EPI dogs are lacking in energy when first diagnosed because the B12 levels are so low and depending on the amount of weight loss and muscle loss. Have you started supplementing the B12 yet?

Unfortunately until you get the right balance of enzymes, B12, food and treating SID if needed, you won't see optimal results.

So, I would first adjust the enzymes and start supplementing the B12 - if after a week the poops still are not good then I would recommend switching the food to a lower fiber food with less pea and legume ingredients and possibly try adding slippery elm or ask your vet for Tylan antibiotics.

Keep us posted.