New EPI diagnosis

[Olesia711]

Hi Cali,

I just checked this out..... you'd be better with freeze dried chicken or beef hearts. This is nothing more than potato and chicken, hydrolyzed (which means any possible offending proteins if your dog has food sensitivities/allergies.... the dogs body will not recognize it..... it is not for EPI dogs.

You can actually make you own treat with enzymes.... just do a small amount at a time.... take her enzymed meal that has already been incubated.... puree it into a mush (with maybe a blender and water or chicken broth added to make it a little more mushier)... put in a squeeze bottle.... and squirt a little in her mouth as a reward when praising her with the appropriate comment . you can put the unused amount in the frig... but not for longer than that day.

Once she is stable THEN you can try giving real dried chicken or beef in tiny bits without any enzymes... as a reward..... but you just are not there yet ..............

[CaliGirl]

Thank you so much Olesia. I was actually doing something similar to that and putting it in a syringe and feeding it to her,( just never added water or chicken broth)I wasn’t sure about the unused portion though, going in the fridge is ok? I thought cold would kill the enzymes? How long after I make it up and put it all together in the syringe should it go in the fridge? I obviously don’t want anything I give her to start collecting bacteria. Also I wondered what you all do for heartworm meds? Can an EPI dog have regular heartworm pills? I use to give my roxy girl heart guard. I have been giving Cali revolution, but am unsure how well a topical works. Can she get the heart guard if it is given right after a meal with enzymes or will it not work?

[Olesia711]

Yes, you can give heartworm med to an EPI dog right after a meal with enzymes
And just a personal note... whenever i gave tick and flea meds (and i used the topical spot application) and when i gave Heartworm meds to any of my dogs... (1) i did never gave the two on the same day... i always spaced it a few days to a week apart and (2) i always gave a milk thistle tablet (liver protectant/cleanse) whenever i gave any harsh chemicals (like tick and flea or heartworm).... as a little extra caution...


Regarding the "mush" treat in a squirt bottle... when you make it you can use some of it within a couple of hours ... and then if you ahve any left over... put in the frig to avoid any bacteria developing... but then when you want to use right out of the fridge... just hold the squeeze bottle in your hands for a bit to warm it up from the cold.... it just needs to be room temp... and this doesn't take too long

[CaliGirl]

Thank you Olesia! You are the best! I appreciate you so much!!

[CaliGirl]

OMG! You guys I’m just so excited I have to share. So far today we have had TWO hard poops!!!! TWO! Like logs! I can’t express how happy I am! I feel so crazy for being so excited, but I feel like you would all understand!

[Olesia711]

WAHOO ! So happy to hear this... doing the happy dance

[Neville]

OMG! You guys I’m just so excited I have to share. So far today we have had TWO hard poops!!!! TWO! Like logs! I can’t express how happy I am! I feel so crazy for being so excited, but I feel like you would all understand!

Congratulations! My dog was diagnosed a few months ago and for the first week I was reporting every bowel movement to my husband... I hope things continue to go in that direction!

[CaliGirl]

Hi everyone! So now I need advice on another topic. Training. Cali is my second dog. My first dog Roxy was my absolute bestfriend! She was soooooo good. That dog went everywhere with me and was always by my side. I got roxy when she was 4 months old. Training her seemed like such a breeze. She was never a nipper, she never once tried to bite me. She would chew on things she wasn’t suppose to here and there, but learned quickly. She walked without a leash on many occasions, never went after anything. She was truly an angel. I did have to remain consistent and it took a little bit, but rewards (treats) got her to where she was. I could go on and on about roxy but I won’t. With Cali everything was different the minute I knew she wasn’t well. Now that I know what is going on and she is gaining weight and is healthy I need to get her training under control. I never imagined it to be so hard. She seriously does not listen to me. She is EXTREMELY motivated by food and when I give her treats before or right after a meal she listens. But this is not enough training time, I feel like I can’t be consistent. Because she was an indoor dog (and still is) for so long, I want to transition to outdoor potty, but she sees the grass as playing grounds, gets out there and chews up grass. If I try and do anything far between meals I feel like I have nothing to motivate her. When I tell her no she ignores me completely. She doesn’t come when called, I have chased her around the house trying to get her at times. She sees everything as a game. I feel like I have absolutely no control. She LOVES to chew on bones(she is still teething) but again I have kept this to before or after a meal, but she always wants it. With roxy everything I did was a reward and she became a very good listener. I don’t know how to do this without reward. I have thought about getting a training collar, as I don’t know what else to do. I have thought about paying money for expensive training classes, but have yet to do it. Without giving her anything(treats) I don’t know how she will ever listen. Cali is a good dog and I know she can be better. I love her dearly and just want some control. No one teaches you how to train without treats. Does anyone have any ideas?

[Olesia711]

ahhh... i hear your frustration!!!!!!

SO.... if i read your post correctly... she LOVES chewing bones? If so.... we can work with that..... get a bone and fix it so that it is virtually clean of meat/gristle/fat. Ask her to do something... like "come" Show her the bone, run away from her and give her the bone as a reward.

However.....If she doesn't know how to "out" (drop whatever is in her mouth) ... work with her first time-wise near an enzymed meal) by sitting with her, saying "out" (which of course she won't know what you mean).. but offer her a piece of high reward meat that she can have/like (i used to use little pieces of cooked chicken liver) which you give her immediately after she drops/open her mouth with whatever (ball/toy, sock, etc) that she has in her mouth.... once she "get's it" .... then you can segue in to working with her with a bone used as the reward to come.

(1) Start by running from her with a visible bone in your hand.... saying "come".... as soon as she does, give her the bone with lots of pats and fanfare. Let her chew for a few minutes...then (with a handy piece of favored meat) (2) ask her to "out"... give her the meat treat and immediately give her back the bone...with lots of fanfare... do this a couple of time and then try to get her to "out" with the bone when you ask her.. (3) repeat just #2 a few times ..... this is what i did with my gal to teach her that "out" doesn't mean i am taking something loved away from her, but rather it is a fun game and that she is going to get it right back.

Once the above "out" is solid... and all done around an enzymed meal....... THEN.... you can start working on "come" with the bone reward not near an enzymed meal.

Or.... if Cali like chasing balls or playing tuggy. .... ( my izzy LOVED food but also loved playing tuggy)... so i had a special tuggy (from all the other tuggies) that i used ONLY for a reward for when she came.. first i would run away from her, call "come" . She chased me and then i rewarded her with a few minutes of interacting with her with this special tuggie. It got so that whenever i grabbed this "special" tuggie Izzy got excited/interested and i started using the tuggie as a reward to train her all kinds of things. As time went on, it got to where i didn't have to use any reward for Izzy but rather she just did things i asked her. Looking back, i kind of wonder if part of the reason Izzy became so tuned-in to anything i asked her to do was because of using a very interactive technique (me on one end of the tuggy and her on the other end) when i first started training her to do stuff. I also ended EVERY training session (sometimes we only did something just a few minutes) on a success note.... and i laughed a lot with her. Even when she did something naughty.... so maybe that was part of the bonding too... i honestly don't know why but she was the best 4 legged companion i was lucky enough to have in my life!

Not sure if this is helpful or not, but it is what worked for us.... When Izzy was diagnosed with EPI.... we were in the middle of training for Schutzhund.... tracking no less.... diarrhea everywhere ................. so i had to rethink how to train her.

[CaliGirl]

Thank you! This is helpful. I am trying so hard, and wish I could be home with her all the time to be more consistent, but I can’t. So I do the best I can. Is there a bone you recommend? I assume you mean to go to a butcher and get a bone? I did order freeze dried chicken hearts to try, was this a good idea? Does everything have to be close to enzyme meals? Will she ever be able to get anything not close to an enzymed meal?