New EPI diagnosis

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
CaliGirl
Member
Posts: 63
Country: United States
State: California
Pet name: Cali
My name: Nicole

Re: New EPI diagnosis

Post by CaliGirl » 05 Nov 2021, 15:41

Hi everyone. It has been a little while. Cali and I are now situated in Alaska. It has been quite a move, but Cali is doing amazing in the snow!!!!
Since we have been here there have been a few changes as far as her exercise because it is getting colder. Cali’s sugar is getting high again and we are needing to adjust insulin. She is currently getting 3 units in the morning and in the evening of vetsulin. I just changed this the other day so will do for a few days then do another curve on her to check it.
One of the other changes I made was to her food. She is currently eating ojijen original dry food since august. Prior to this I was feeding her Ketona chicken recipe.
I currently know she is NOT getting the right amount of insulin so she is drinking a ton of water. The amount she is regurgitating is just insane though. It is mostly right after she drinks a ton of water but sometimes just randomly. I feel so bad for her, and can’t help but wonder if it is the food. She scarfs the food down but this has been a consistent thing for a while now.
She takes slippery elm prior to both feedings, takes omeprozole in the AM, 1/2 tsp canned pumpkin AM ONLY. She get 1/2 cup of food orijen with 1/2tsp enzymes, a sprinkle of b12 AM/PM, 1 tablet of visbiome for the day, and then her insulin.
I know the ketona food helped with her numbers. She still had regurgitation but I don’t think this bad. The reason I changed in the first place was because I wanted a more accessible food being out here in Alaska. The only place I can get ketona is Amazon. However I just noticed recently they started selling the bigger bags, prior to this it was only the small bags.
Could all of her regurgitation be from the food, is there something else that could be going on? I’m not sure if I should make ANOTHER change to her food……

CaliGirl
Member
Posts: 63
Country: United States
State: California
Pet name: Cali
My name: Nicole

Re: New EPI diagnosis

Post by CaliGirl » 15 Jun 2022, 02:44

Hi Everyone. I need some help with Cali again. I have recently discovered that it seems to be all of her regurgitation, drinking a ton of water, licking excessively is coming from her enzymes. Cali is taking pancreplus enzymes. I started to lower the amount of enzymes and started introducing raw beef pancreas. I had her completely off enzymes and just the pancreas and everything stopped. No drinking a ton, absolutely no regurgitation, overall healthier and more energy. My problem was I couldn’t get solid poops. I figured this was because the raw pancreas alone just wasn’t enough. So I added back in enzymes with the pancreas. 1/4tsp. Back to drinking a ton, regurgitating, throwing up water, everything. Cali is so uncomfortable when this is happening you can totally tell and it makes me feel awful. I was reading I should try creon, even though it is still porcine it may be better???? Do I have to get a script from my vet for this? Do we think I should try this with Cali? Does anyone have any other ideas? I would like to find an enzyme to add to the raw pancreas that will give her enough of what she needs to get solid poops and be healthy.
Any advice would be GREATLY appreciated, I’m stuck once again with her.

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jilbert57
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Posts: 2088
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: New EPI diagnosis

Post by jilbert57 » 15 Jun 2022, 08:29

Good morning.

You certainly could try Creon and yes it is a prescription.

What you could try is adding in some plant enzymes to see if that helps firm the stool Prozyme is an example.

Are you addressing the B12, grain free diet and have used or are using an Antibiotic along with the enzymes or pancreas?

I forget have you tried the Pro/Prebiotics?

The correct dose of enzyme, diet, antibiotic and B12 all must be addressed to have things come together. Too little enzyme can have the same effect as too much.

Was the poop ever good since diagnosis?

Jill

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

CaliGirl
Member
Posts: 63
Country: United States
State: California
Pet name: Cali
My name: Nicole

Re: New EPI diagnosis

Post by CaliGirl » 15 Jun 2022, 11:48

Good morning
Yes Cali gets b12, she is not on a grain free diet anymore and was found it worked much better for her as we are managing diabetes as well. Shes also antibiotic free as she has been on multiple along with a steroid at one point and that made everything worse for her she was losing weight like crazy and in terrible shape, until we got her on grain food, b12, probiotic, and pancreas. She was thriving other than the poops. She did have good poops on current diet and enzymes prior to adding/changing to pancreas but was having all the symptoms. It is definitely the enzymes that are creating some sort of discomfort within her.

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jilbert57
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Posts: 2088
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: New EPI diagnosis

Post by jilbert57 » 15 Jun 2022, 13:31

Another option you could try is going back to what worked(enzymes and current diet) and anning an Acid reducer like Pepcid regular(famotadine) or Zantac (ranitidine). You tried Tylan for the Antibiotic?

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

Tuckaboo Pam
Member
Posts: 1345
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: New EPI diagnosis

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 15 Jun 2022, 16:15

Can she tolerate canned pumpkin? Tucker loves it, and it can help firm up the poop.

I also remember somebody said alfalfa rabbit pellets(?) firmed their pup's poop, too, and then I was informed that they actually make a version meant for dogs.

Also https://smile.amazon.com/Diggin-xMlJxQ- ... 204&sr=8-5

Tuck's poo is softer than my other dogs', but other than that he's good. I could try the pellets, I suppose.

Hope you can figure this out. --- Pam
Tucker was a shepherd/lab mix--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Took Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 1 1/2 cups/day, with a total of 4 cups of Fresh Pet. Stopped eating everything in sight, and went from 60 to 85 pounds! Tucker was my boyfriend, and my husband was OK with that. Tucker succumbed to hemangiosarcoma, but we cherished every day we had with that wonderful, beautiful boy. I will always, always miss my sweet big boy.

CaliGirl
Member
Posts: 63
Country: United States
State: California
Pet name: Cali
My name: Nicole

Re: New EPI diagnosis

Post by CaliGirl » 16 Jun 2022, 00:13

Thank you so much for these ideas. Cali has been an anti acid before.
Like we always talk about over and over with EPI dogs, everyone is different and what works for one may not work for another. For some reason with Cali I have found the less I do the better she is. We have done the slippery elm, anti acids, pumpkin, tylan, metronidazole, steroids, you name it. The way she has been the most comfortable is her food, which is annamet dry food and just food for dogs wet food mixed with it, b12 capsule daily, fortiflora probiotic, and raw beef pancreas. She has been the absolute best with this aside from a solid poop. It is not water but it is pretty cow patty like. I wish I could just figure out how to get that for her without adding an enzyme because for whatever reason once I add enzymes we go to licking excessively, her legs, feet, me, then drinks a ton of water and throws up, restless and uncomfortable., and this happens for hours after eating each meal. This is completely gone when she has no enzymes in her food. Just want to be able to give her both. I am trying my hardest….

Jane&Clyde
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Posts: 157
Country: United States
Pet name: Clyde
My name: Jane

Re: New EPI diagnosis

Post by Jane&Clyde » 16 Jun 2022, 01:11

Have you tried increasing the amount of beef pancreas you give her? This would give her more enzymes without using pork. Another option would be trying either adding or using alone freeze dried beef pancreas (available at EzymeDiane). If you try the freeze dried beef pancreas, please note that the dose required is much more than the pork enzymes.

Of course, as others have mentioned, you could look into trying the prescription Creon.

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Olesia711
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Posts: 3857
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: New EPI diagnosis

Post by Olesia711 » 16 Jun 2022, 19:24

HI Nicole,

I am so sorry you are going through this with your sweet little girl Cali.

You have been given some really good suggestions...... i can send you some low dose CREON that would be perfect for Cali to try.... and if it works, keep the bottle and then talk to your vet about giving you a prescription for you to order some from Canada.

Because Cali is an EPI +Diabetic dog, and from what you are saying, i would stick to the food that you were using that works, (i think you mentioned Anamaet).. because of her Diabetes... even though if you do have to change food eventually.... put it at the bottom of your list of things to try for now, cause i agree with you, it does sound like she is having issues with the enzymes.

I do have a suggestion that has not yet been mentioned, and it came to mind because i am currently working privately with another lady who's very small dog, also EPI + Diabetic, is having a similar reaction to the powdered enzymes, so she cannot give the full dose and of course that leads to loose stools.... SO.... what "appears" to help is adding Raw Green Tripe to the diet.... since RGT has natural enzymes in it along with natural probiotics and many vitamins , etc, etc. this just might work for you.
Years and years ago, they actually used to give EPI dogs Raw Green Tripe to help them.

So this would be one way that would supplement the enzymes in the raw pancreas enzymes that you are giving without adding more porcine "enzymes" that might upset her. Might be worth a try.

Other than this... what also is helping the other lady is a much lesser dose of the porcine enzymes (because of a similar situation), an upped dose of the plant enzymes (i suggested Dr. Goodpet's enzymes) a little bit of SLippery ELm and the Raw Green Tripe.

Please, PLEASE keep us posted and if you are interested in me sending you some CREON to try.... please email me at: Olesia.Kennedy@gmail.com
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

CaliGirl
Member
Posts: 63
Country: United States
State: California
Pet name: Cali
My name: Nicole

Re: New EPI diagnosis

Post by CaliGirl » 16 Jun 2022, 23:23

You are all absolutely wonderful and so helpful. With out you all and this forum, I seriously would have never made it this far with Cali! She really is doing wonderful and the funny thing is I have been saying from day one my biggest problem with her was this regurgitation and uncomfortable state she was in after eating, I honestly would have NEVER thought it was the enzymes, until I completely stopped and just like that , everything stopped. I love that fact that I can give her the raw beef pancreas and it is better for her, it’s just this darn poop!!’
I will definitely try the green tripe, where do I get this? I currently get her pancreas from hare, but I find it very difficult to find places that ship to Alaska where we live.
I would love to try the creon first before ordering it to see if it works, I will email you olesia. I am willing to try everything to see what works best for her.
I am currently adding ansestral grass fed beef pancreas supplement that I got off Amazon to her food with the pancreas, but poop is the same, I have been adding that for a little while now. I have upped the pancreas, but I also hesitate in going too high, I’m not sure why only that I read once that too much isn’t good for them either. Cali is 11 lbs and she is currently getting just under 2 oz per feeding. If you think giving her more is ok, please advise.
Also I did email Diane about the freeze dried bovine and she said that she didn’t think it would work as far as giving her what she needed??? I did tell her she was getting the beef pancreas and this would be an addition but from what I took from it she would need too much of the powder in addition to pancreas….. I think was what she was saying.
I appreciate everyone’s help thank you! When trying to manage more than one disease it gets so complicated and my main goal is to keep Cali happy and comfortable. We are are very close!

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