Newly Diagnoised

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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Tuckaboo Pam
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Posts: 796
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: Newly Diagnoised

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 29 May 2021, 16:30

Just sharing a random thing here, because I am fascinated by it, and Olesia mentioned mind games. My dog trainer friend tells her Cavalier to "create", and she gets a treat for everything she does, as long as she hasn't done it in that session. ie, she gets a treat for "sit", then does seven other things. If she sits again, she gets no treat, so she then sits & adds another trick. It's incredible to see how smart dogs are, and a good reminder to keep them stimulated.

Shawn, I don't know about the fiber content of quinoa, but it's interesting to know it's not a grain, but a seed.Tucker's vet told me to give Tucker some canned pumpkin, and I'm lucky because he does like it. He has been licking his hiney & whining. Does this sound like an anal gland problem, for the first time in seven years? UGH, I hope not.

Antlers---I buy white-tail deer antlers on Amazon, and have not had broken teeth to my knowlegde. BUT, when they start to get small you have to toss them, or risk a choking incident.
Tucker is a shepherd/lab mix; he has tested positive on the ScheBo test for EPI, as well as the fasting TLI. Results--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Currently taking Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlab B12 one capsule per day, slippery elm 1/8 teaspoon twice/day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon twice/day (to hold SID at bay). Sport Dog Elite, herding dogs 3 1/2 cups/day. No more poop eating, has gone from 60 to 80 pounds, and he is a happy member of the family, though a bit of a stinker, if you ask the other dogs. Tucker is my boyfriend, and my husband is OK with that.

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Madelon
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Posts: 1309
Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
State: Tennessee
Pet name: Doc

Re: Newly Diagnoised

Post by Madelon » 31 May 2021, 22:16

I used to give Doc antlers but when I saw how easily some splintered I stopped giving them - worried that he would ingest shards and it would cut him on the inside - I am a helicopter mom through and through LOL. I am a HUGE advocate of mind games - there is an enrichment group on FB - I can't remember the name off the top of my head but if you google enrichment games for dogs I'm sure you'll find it or some suggestions. We sometimes play hide and seek with Doc - one of us hides and he has to find it - but there are all sorts of enrichment games where you can use a toy as a reward or just pure praise for completing the task. Sometimes using he mind can be just as exhausting as physical exercise.
MADELON and Doc. DX EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
Test Results: (1st) 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; (2nd) 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; (3rd) 10/2015 TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4. Prior to DX: May 2014 (2mos) - DX coccidia/bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Dx SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May 2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop. Regimen: 4 cups Sport Dog Food Elite Herding - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 1/2tsp Slippery Elm 2xday; Multivitamin; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Salmon Oil

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PipersMom
Member
Posts: 66
Country: United States
State: New Jersey
Pet name: Piper
My name: Shawn

Re: Newly Diagnoised

Post by PipersMom » 01 Jun 2021, 04:20

Tuckaboo Pam wrote: 29 May 2021, 16:30 Just sharing a random thing here, because I am fascinated by it, and Olesia mentioned mind games. My dog trainer friend tells her Cavalier to "create", and she gets a treat for everything she does, as long as she hasn't done it in that session. ie, she gets a treat for "sit", then does seven other things. If she sits again, she gets no treat, so she then sits & adds another trick. It's incredible to see how smart dogs are, and a good reminder to keep them stimulated.

Shawn, I don't know about the fiber content of quinoa, but it's interesting to know it's not a grain, but a seed.Tucker's vet told me to give Tucker some canned pumpkin, and I'm lucky because he does like it. He has been licking his hiney & whining. Does this sound like an anal gland problem, for the first time in seven years? UGH, I hope not.

Antlers---I buy white-tail deer antlers on Amazon, and have not had broken teeth to my knowlegde. BUT, when they start to get small you have to toss them, or risk a choking incident.
I also like that idea and will be looking into it more. As for the Quinoa, I will be giving Piper all Brown Rice only in her food now. Still only 2 tbls worth. The pumpkin I only use if really needed but I will experiment adding that to her food and see if she will eat it. It is a possibility and alternative.

Antlers, Piper had them when she was younger and was never interested in them. Her trainer at the time suggested them. I give her one of them and she gnaws at them so I may get a new one for her,.

Madelon wrote: 31 May 2021, 22:16 I used to give Doc antlers but when I saw how easily some splintered I stopped giving them - worried that he would ingest shards and it would cut him on the inside - I am a helicopter mom through and through LOL. I am a HUGE advocate of mind games - there is an enrichment group on FB - I can't remember the name off the top of my head but if you google enrichment games for dogs I'm sure you'll find it or some suggestions. We sometimes play hide and seek with Doc - one of us hides and he has to find it - but there are all sorts of enrichment games where you can use a toy as a reward or just pure praise for completing the task. Sometimes using he mind can be just as exhausting as physical exercise.

I too am a helicopter mom and worry a LOT too so I understand ;) I am going to look into those mind games because I need to give Piper more "work" to do to tire her out. As for antlers, I did read all the possible hazards and I will be very mindful and careful when I give her one.




On a whole other note, my mom was here for the day and has been told in the past to never feed Piper anything. Well the Reaper, that is her nickname and she knows it LOL... gave her about 1/3 cup of cheerios dry. I did not know until I saw a bowl on the table with one lone cheerio. I asked if she wanted more with milk and that is when she said she fed them to the dog. I was so hopping mad :evil: she got yelled at. Well she left but Piper had a belly ache all night. I gave her a Zofran and a Pepcid. Both seemed to help. She woke me at 4am to go potty and thankfully her stool was still good but will watch that today as well. Her belly still hurts but hopefully it will pass.
I am Shawn, from NJ. Piper is ChowChow, German Shepherd, Catahoula Leopard Dog, Bluetick Coonhound, Border Collie, and a little Pit. Born 8/28/19.

EPI Diagnoised
: 4/7/21 (cTLI-1.8, B-12-<150, Folate->24). Started Enzymes 4/8/21. 6 Weekly B-12 inj. given. Piper's weight is a steady 50 to 50.8lbs. Lowest weight 42lbs. As of 4/5/21 B12 was 505.
Daily Medications: PancreVed Powder, B-12 1000mg tabs, Proin, Gabapentin, Proviable-Forte Capsule. If needed: Pepcid, zofran, Carprofen
Current Food: The Farmers Dog Beef Recipe (Old food Royal Canin HP)

Tuckaboo Pam
Member
Posts: 796
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: Newly Diagnoised

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 01 Jun 2021, 07:41

I'm sorry your mom did that, but I'm glad Piper seems to have had a normal poo. I guess she just doesn't understand what a serious condition this is. --- P
Tucker is a shepherd/lab mix; he has tested positive on the ScheBo test for EPI, as well as the fasting TLI. Results--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Currently taking Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlab B12 one capsule per day, slippery elm 1/8 teaspoon twice/day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon twice/day (to hold SID at bay). Sport Dog Elite, herding dogs 3 1/2 cups/day. No more poop eating, has gone from 60 to 80 pounds, and he is a happy member of the family, though a bit of a stinker, if you ask the other dogs. Tucker is my boyfriend, and my husband is OK with that.

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PipersMom
Member
Posts: 66
Country: United States
State: New Jersey
Pet name: Piper
My name: Shawn

Re: Newly Diagnoised

Post by PipersMom » 22 Jun 2021, 10:23

I have a new question regarding treats.

We have tried to go no treats and for us we need them still. There are only a few she can have because of her allergies. We have continued to give them throughout the process however not as much or as often. Piper has been on her regimen for over two months now and since starting the enzymes her stool is stable and good. She has had a few belly rumbles here and there but they seemed to have resolved. I know I have to alternate peanut butter and cream cheese to give her medication. If I stick to one for too long that can do it. Alternating ever couple of days seems to help.

It is hard to give a toy in place of a treat because there are only two types of items we can give her .. Hard Nylon or Elk Antlers. Both of which she only plays with when bored, with us or in her pen. Not good as a treat or reward. Any other toy she will rip to shreds. We tried them all.

I have read the page about Treats and I see that dehydrating them is what needs to be done. I do not have a dehydrator but I like the idea of sweet potatoes or apples or even bananas. How would I dehydrate these and how much enzymes and water etc would I use? Making my own is all new to me so how do I store and how long do they keep? The only meat she is allowed is beef. No other proteins.

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
I am Shawn, from NJ. Piper is ChowChow, German Shepherd, Catahoula Leopard Dog, Bluetick Coonhound, Border Collie, and a little Pit. Born 8/28/19.

EPI Diagnoised
: 4/7/21 (cTLI-1.8, B-12-<150, Folate->24). Started Enzymes 4/8/21. 6 Weekly B-12 inj. given. Piper's weight is a steady 50 to 50.8lbs. Lowest weight 42lbs. As of 4/5/21 B12 was 505.
Daily Medications: PancreVed Powder, B-12 1000mg tabs, Proin, Gabapentin, Proviable-Forte Capsule. If needed: Pepcid, zofran, Carprofen
Current Food: The Farmers Dog Beef Recipe (Old food Royal Canin HP)

Barb
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Posts: 703
Country: United States
State: New Jersey

Re: Newly Diagnoised

Post by Barb » 22 Jun 2021, 14:12

What worked with Kolby for treats was taking bits of his enzymed food and putting them in empty ice cube tray compartments and freezing them, then offering them...one or two at a time... when he needed rewards or some training. You just need to watch the poos while using these frozen treats. If they start to get loose you would have to lay off those treats for a while, then start again. I never had to do this. He seemed to tolerate the enzymed treats very well.



Barb

Tuckaboo Pam
Member
Posts: 796
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: Newly Diagnoised

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 22 Jun 2021, 16:46

Barb---

Do you bring the treats to room temp, or does the body temperature activate the enzymes?

Confession, I give Tucker 3 or 4 small treats called Mother Hubbard, every day. His poo is not perfect, but it is tubular & easily picked up. I sometimes think it would be firmer if I eliminated the treats, but that really wouldn't be worth it to me.

I did wait until he had been on the EPI regimen for a few months before I started giving them.

---Pam
Tucker is a shepherd/lab mix; he has tested positive on the ScheBo test for EPI, as well as the fasting TLI. Results--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Currently taking Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlab B12 one capsule per day, slippery elm 1/8 teaspoon twice/day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon twice/day (to hold SID at bay). Sport Dog Elite, herding dogs 3 1/2 cups/day. No more poop eating, has gone from 60 to 80 pounds, and he is a happy member of the family, though a bit of a stinker, if you ask the other dogs. Tucker is my boyfriend, and my husband is OK with that.

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PipersMom
Member
Posts: 66
Country: United States
State: New Jersey
Pet name: Piper
My name: Shawn

Re: Newly Diagnoised

Post by PipersMom » 02 Jul 2021, 08:40

I still have not made any treat. I bought sweet potatoes but am waiting for some help on how to make them without a dehydrator. Any ideas?

Next, I do have another question.. should I be posting separate posts or can I leave them all here? Anyway here I go...

I give Piper her Probiotic in the morning right before I feed her breakfast (with enzymes sitting 30 mins). Should I be giving the Probiotic at a different time? Is it ok to give it with Breakfast?
I am Shawn, from NJ. Piper is ChowChow, German Shepherd, Catahoula Leopard Dog, Bluetick Coonhound, Border Collie, and a little Pit. Born 8/28/19.

EPI Diagnoised
: 4/7/21 (cTLI-1.8, B-12-<150, Folate->24). Started Enzymes 4/8/21. 6 Weekly B-12 inj. given. Piper's weight is a steady 50 to 50.8lbs. Lowest weight 42lbs. As of 4/5/21 B12 was 505.
Daily Medications: PancreVed Powder, B-12 1000mg tabs, Proin, Gabapentin, Proviable-Forte Capsule. If needed: Pepcid, zofran, Carprofen
Current Food: The Farmers Dog Beef Recipe (Old food Royal Canin HP)

Tuckaboo Pam
Member
Posts: 796
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: Newly Diagnoised

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 02 Jul 2021, 14:11

I think we try to stay on the same thread. And, your question about probiotics is a good one, too. I used to throw everything into Tuck's bowl, but then it was advised to wait awhile for the probiotic, if Tylan was included in the food. I am unfamiliar with your other meds, but somebody will have that information for you!---Pam
Tucker is a shepherd/lab mix; he has tested positive on the ScheBo test for EPI, as well as the fasting TLI. Results--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Currently taking Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlab B12 one capsule per day, slippery elm 1/8 teaspoon twice/day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon twice/day (to hold SID at bay). Sport Dog Elite, herding dogs 3 1/2 cups/day. No more poop eating, has gone from 60 to 80 pounds, and he is a happy member of the family, though a bit of a stinker, if you ask the other dogs. Tucker is my boyfriend, and my husband is OK with that.

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PipersMom
Member
Posts: 66
Country: United States
State: New Jersey
Pet name: Piper
My name: Shawn

Re: Newly Diagnoised

Post by PipersMom » 03 Jul 2021, 10:33

Tuckaboo Pam wrote: 02 Jul 2021, 14:11 I think we try to stay on the same thread. And, your question about probiotics is a good one, too. I used to throw everything into Tuck's bowl, but then it was advised to wait awhile for the probiotic, if Tylan was included in the food. I am unfamiliar with your other meds, but somebody will have that information for you!---Pam
Thanks!

So do you think if I feed her at 5am and 2pm daily that I should give her the Probitotic about noon?

A bit about the other medications.

Gabapenten (aka Neurotin) is for her nerve. She can get a pinched nerve at the base of her spine.

Proin is for her USMI (Urethral Sphincter Mechanism Incompetence). After Piper was spayed, she would just leak urine and not even know it. The vet told me not to worry she was a puppy and it was due to UTI. She wanted to put Piper on a month dose of antibiotics. Well this is what brought me to my current vet. The same day I went to the new vet and they said it was USMI and sent me to a specialist. Found out Piper NEVER had any UTI's and to this day still has not. That old vet , well one of her doctors misdiagnosed my last pup and she dies.. another story and I can tell if you want). Very happy with my vet now. Without her I would never know Piper had EPI.

B12 and Pepcid

Proviable-Forte Capsule Probiotic

Carprofen (aka Rimadyl) for pain and/or anti-inflammatory

Zofran Nausea
I am Shawn, from NJ. Piper is ChowChow, German Shepherd, Catahoula Leopard Dog, Bluetick Coonhound, Border Collie, and a little Pit. Born 8/28/19.

EPI Diagnoised
: 4/7/21 (cTLI-1.8, B-12-<150, Folate->24). Started Enzymes 4/8/21. 6 Weekly B-12 inj. given. Piper's weight is a steady 50 to 50.8lbs. Lowest weight 42lbs. As of 4/5/21 B12 was 505.
Daily Medications: PancreVed Powder, B-12 1000mg tabs, Proin, Gabapentin, Proviable-Forte Capsule. If needed: Pepcid, zofran, Carprofen
Current Food: The Farmers Dog Beef Recipe (Old food Royal Canin HP)

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