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Re: My 4 months old puppy may have EPI?
Posted: 28 Aug 2021, 10:03
by Michaela
Your vet may have only seen older dogs with EPI but young puppies are diagnosed with it. Here are just two examples:
https://www.epi4dogs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=312
https://www.epi4dogs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=687
Nikki was on Viokase when she was first diagnosed, it worked great but it's very expensive. Did your vet order the powder or the tablets?
Please read this guide on how to prepare his meals with the enzymes for now until the test results come back, hopefully you will have answers soon.
https://epi4dogs.com/epi-quick-guide-usa/
Re: My 4 months old puppy may have EPI?
Posted: 28 Aug 2021, 17:55
by Okii Dokii
Thanks for sharing the guide. I just fed him the first meal with Viokase enzyme. It’s in tablets.
The vet asked me to give 2tablets (crushed) with each meal.
Last night he had another episode of Diarrhea, started with cow poop to more watery and with mucus - is this common in EPI dogs?
Re: My 4 months old puppy may have EPI?
Posted: 28 Aug 2021, 18:34
by Tuckaboo Pam
Yes, that kind of poop is pretty much a hallmark of EPI, until you get them stabilized. WEith EPI, it's all about the poop. There's even a chart you can look at, to compare with what your guy is doing. It's pretty graphic!
https://epi4dogs.com/poop-chart/
You could try adding coconut oil, to speed up his weight gain, and be sure you feed 50% more than the package guide, if he were at his IDEAL weight at this time.
I am so sorry for you. So does this test you are doing include Tli? Remember, your puppy should have nothing but water for twelve hours before the blood draw, if you end up getting it.
For mixing the food & enzymes, here's what I do---
1 scoop enzymes per 1 cup food (I guess you use your tablets, crushed, in whatever proportion your vet said to use), in the bowl
place measured kibble on top
stir in about 1/4 cup liquid per 1 cup of kibble, let sit 20-30 minutes (not everybody does it this way)
Tucker also gets slippery elm, B12, and tylan, but I don't think you are there yet, with your diagnosis.
https://epi4dogs.com/enzyme-list/
If the probiotics are helping firm the poo, that's great.
I hope things go well with the test. It's good to have answers, and soon you will see him back to his old self. Poor baby.
Take care---Pam & Tucker
Re: My 4 months old puppy may have EPI?
Posted: 29 Aug 2021, 02:51
by Okii Dokii
Tuckaboo Pam wrote: ↑28 Aug 2021, 18:34
Yes, that kind of poop is pretty much a hallmark of EPI, until you get them stabilized. WEith EPI, it's all about the poop. There's even a chart you can look at, to compare with what your guy is doing. It's pretty graphic!
https://epi4dogs.com/poop-chart/
You could try adding coconut oil, to speed up his weight gain, and be sure you feed 50% more than the package guide, if he were at his IDEAL weight at this time.
I am so sorry for you. So does this test you are doing include Tli? Remember, your puppy should have nothing but water for twelve hours before the blood draw, if you end up getting it.
For mixing the food & enzymes, here's what I do---
1 scoop enzymes per 1 cup food (I guess you use your tablets, crushed, in whatever proportion your vet said to use), in the bowl
place measured kibble on top
stir in about 1/4 cup liquid per 1 cup of kibble, let sit 20-30 minutes (not everybody does it this way)
Tucker also gets slippery elm, B12, and tylan, but I don't think you are there yet, with your diagnosis.
https://epi4dogs.com/enzyme-list/
If the probiotics are helping firm the poo, that's great.
I hope things go well with the test. It's good to have answers, and soon you will see him back to his old self. Poor baby.
Take care---Pam & Tucker
Yes the vet said the panel include TLi test, and also B12 and folate level. I was a bit disappointed that they didn’t mention about fasting until I brought it up, initially they said there is nothing I needed to do before the test.
Anyway, I fed his very first enzyme meal this afternoon followed by dinner in 2 separate portions.
He is still having diarrhea (few hours after the meals). If the enzyme is working, he should be able to digest the bland food right?
Please tell me it is just the enzyme not kicking in yet…. Or maybe I should try feeding kibbles instead??
Re: My 4 months old puppy may have EPI?
Posted: 29 Aug 2021, 19:13
by Tuckaboo Pam
Hey, Maggie. Tucker's recovery was gradual, besides, he is not pooping out what he just ate. Madelon tells people to put a piece of raw carrot in one meal, then record when you see it come out the other end, and you will know his turnaround time. Give the enzymes some time, and know that there are other issues to address, once EPI is confirmed. All of this will help, and provided you can get things shipped to Canada, we can help you save money, too.
The fasting is very important. It's also good to have the blood drawn & sent on a Monday or Tuesday, so it gets to the lab before the weekend & doesn't sit around. I made Tucker's appt as early in the a.m. as I could, so he just had to wait a little late for breakfast, not fast all day. That would be TORTURE for a pupp
Make sure you feed 150% of the recommended amount of kibble for his ideal weight, and break it up into At LEAST two meals.
Sounds like you are getting all the typical tests, your vet just refers to them differently.
Take Care---Pam
Re: My 4 months old puppy may have EPI?
Posted: 30 Aug 2021, 18:19
by Okii Dokii
Hi everyone,
So Okii’s TLi result came back and vet said it’s normal (17.0)…. We don’t have the B12 and folate result yet, they need to get more blood sample to test.
Now Vet is suggesting to test for Addison disease because his cortisol level is low.
I am really puzzled right now. This is day 3 of starting enzyme and Okii finally had one solid poop today. (He has ‘t had one solid poop in a month!) The description of Addison disease is quite vague, and Okii doesn’t have any signs of lethargy, weakness, poor appetite, excessive thirst which are some of the symptoms…
Vet said I can still continue the enzyme since it causes no harm. I think I will still keep going with the treatment for TLi everyone suggested and get him tested for B12 and folate. But not having a clear diagnosis is frustrating….
I’m not sure what the cortisol level indicates. If anyone has any insight please share…
Re: My 4 months old puppy may have EPI?
Posted: 30 Aug 2021, 18:20
by Okii Dokii
Here is test report. Some of the data hasn’t came back yet.
Re: My 4 months old puppy may have EPI?
Posted: 31 Aug 2021, 03:45
by Jean
Welcome from the UK
we have had younger dogs than this Oki is beautiful
when Kara was down we fed scrambled egg and mashed potato as per the vet , the poops you mention are similar to what she had, and it was a massive attack of SID Small intestinal Dysbiosis, which in laymans terms is bad gut health caused by bad bacteria , this is normally dealt with by Tylan which is an antibiotic , ask the vet to re run the test as per
https://vetmed.tamu.edu/gilab/service/assays/tli/, you should not have to pay
Re: My 4 months old puppy may have EPI?
Posted: 31 Aug 2021, 09:07
by jilbert57
Hi Maggie, you can use the porcine enzymes for awhile but it is not recommended long term if your pup does not have Epi.
His cortisol level is within the normal range so not sure about the Addisons. Cortisol levels can change due to stress I know.
Let us know when the results of the chronic enteropathy test comes back.
I suspect gut parasites has been ruled out?
Jill
Re: My 4 months old puppy may have EPI?
Posted: 31 Aug 2021, 12:50
by Jean
it might be as well if you are testing for Addisons to check for Cushings, get it all out of the way and then weigh up your options
I had a Shepherd puppy with this type of thing and it was a bad case of worms, of every kind known to vets, he got rid of a pound in weight of the damned things, we found them when he poo'd and weighed them, and burned them , and photo'd them for the vet who was virtually sick ! it was like a large bag of bean sprouts
let us know