Epi4Dogs

although you have your doubts and feel things will not be good, please do follow the B12 protocol. wait the 30 days give next B12 shot, then wait 30 days and test. DO NOT test now.... because then you won't get a good B12 benchmark reading.... i know it's hard.... but.....................................ya gotta stick to the plan.

Yes..... if the stools are "iffy".... sure go ahead and try a pinch more enzymes. Usually we suggest 1/8 of a tsp more with each meal.... give the increased enzymes a few days (maybe 3 to 5 days) and assess the poo results.

If the extra enzyme improve the poos.... yeah, that indicates that SID is not under good control. SOme of the reasons for out of controlled SID are:
1. you simply are not using enough enzymes
2. the food that you are feeding is not optimal
3. both options above are fine, but SID has not yet come under good control since EPI diagnosis, so gut flora need to be improved via Prebiotics, or synergy effect with both pre+probiotics, or... if none of this works, then a course of Tylan antibiotic for 45 days....
4. sometimes SID can't get under better control cause the B12 is just not high enough....

Unfortunately, it is a minefield trying to figure out the underlying cause.... this is why after implementing the EPI protocol, if things don't start improving overall, then we start "tweaking" things one-at-a-time.. Keep an EPI journal/Log as this will help you identify what the problem is... and dear heaven, thiis take F-O-R-E-V-E-R but is well worth doing.................

oh... and please allow me to reiterate. Since you started with the B12 shots..... do not give the B12 capsules.... finish the shot regimen, re-do the B12 test and THEN once you see where the B12 levels are at.... you then can decide to switch to the B12 pills if you'd like, do a combo of pills and shots if needed or just stick with periodic shots.... all based on whatever the re-do B12 tests scores come back at

Is the food you are feeding Max Natural Dog Co. from Maximum K9 Service? We recommend 4% fiber or less for DRY kibble. With wet diets (canned and raw), the high moisture needs to be taken into account. I did a few quick calculations on a few of their varieties, and while some came out as less than the 4% fiber recommendation, several came out significantly higher.

Could the variation in stools be from differing fiber amounts in different food formulas whether or not you are feeding the food I mentioned?

Yes! I feed beef and veg raw from Maximum K-9. I saw the crude fiber was listed at 1.1%. Is that good or not good? I had no idea about it possibly being actually higher than 4% Yikes! How do I calculate? Thank you!!!

The Beef and Veg formula is max 2.93% fiber. So, while it doesn't rule out the food not agreeing with your dog, the food does fit the fiber recommendation.

To calculate the fiber on a dry matter basis: Max fiber % on label divided by (100 - max moisture % on label). Multiply by 100 to get the fiber%.

So the Beef and Veg is 1.1/37.5 = .0293 x 100= 2.93

How much enzymes are you giving?

Have you tried a probiotic? Unfortunately, this can take weeks to show results though. EPI can get very frustrating trying to tweak everything because we want our babies fixed right away.

excellent catch and suggestions Jane!!! Thanks Hopefully this will be helpful for Debbie.

Thank you so much for the calculation! I was worried that I was giving too much fiber. That is a relief. I haven't tried a probiotic yet. Just an 1/8 of a teaspoon of Slippery Elm twice a day. I am thinking a probiotic may be needed at this point. And as for amount of enzymes... I'm doing 1 level teaspoon per cup of food, feeding her 3x a day right now. She has gained a little weight back which has made me feel better....but so nerve wracking....our babies are our world! Thank you so much for helping me. You are the best!

Olesia711 wrote: ↑24 Nov 2021, 16:22 excellent catch and suggestions Jane!!! Thanks Hopefully this will be helpful for Debbie.

Olesia thank you for keeping me on track! It's so hard to not want to dive in with more B-12 supplementation, especially when that may not be the answer! I'm going to hold fast and be strong! I have found all of your insight to be invaluable beyond words!! Everyone here has such a wealth of knowledge that I'm so appreciative of. I hope one day to be helping someone else who finds they are in the same boat. xox

It sounds like you are giving plenty of enzymes. In fact, our recommended starting dose for WET food is lower than that...1/2 to 3/4 teaspoon per cup of food. Have you discovered enzymes by EnzymeDiane yet? Many people here on this forum use them (including me), and they are a lot cheaper than the prescription ones. Most people use the 6x ones because they are the most similar in strength to the prescription ones and their dosage is the same.

If you do decide to start a probiotic, we recommend Proviable or Visbiome. Start at 1/2 or less of the suggested dose and slowly work your way up because probiotics can cause the runs in some dogs.

I can vouch for the waiting for the B12 to kick in. It felt like forever when Clyde and I went through this.

Hmmmmm….Do you think I could be giving too many enzymes? And yes I plan on switching over to enzyme Diane as soon as were finished with the RX we have…Viokase-V…. So ridiculously expensive!

In your opinion would you start the probiotic at this point or would you check with the vet first? I know that’s a loaded question… Our vet hasn’t been very helpful… I was planning on checking in with her early next week to get her input… But always appreciate the experience of everyone here