Update on Trixie and question on special food

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TrixEPIMama
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Update on Trixie and question on special food

Post by TrixEPIMama » 01 Jun 2022, 11:10

Hello again, EPI family.

A few months back I introduced my cattle dog-x, Trixie. https://www.epi4dogs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1401

Time for an update! But also a BIG question on the food change we need to make.

UPDATE: Thanks to wonderful forum member Michaela, I got two bottles of WonderLabs TrinFac-B and have been giving Trixie one capsule a day mixed into her food for several months. Last week I took her to Dear Vet for a re-test of her cobolamin levels. She's gone from out of normal range on the low end to out of normal range on the high end -- from 189 to over 1000! On oral supplementation alone. Wow. So I've cut her down to four capsules a week and will see where that takes her.

Her EPI symptoms have been under good control since days after we began giving her 1900 mcg a day of freeze-dried pork pancreas from Allergy Research Group.

Non-EPI issues have preoccupied us since.

HEART: One vet detected a heart murmur. Another didn't. I was worried Trixie might have nutrition-related cardiomyopathy. But nope. A vsit to a veterinary cardiologist and an echocardiogram revealed an intermittent, and harmless heart murmur -- common, said the cardiovet, in very fit, athletic dogs (and similarly in humans). Whew.

ALLERGIES: And here's where my big question comes in. Trixie has been very itchy since the beginning. Yesterday I learned she's allergic to 25 different things. In the food category, she can no longer have:

* Pork
* Corn
* Oats
* Peas (or lentils says DV, though they were not tested for)
* Rice
* Peanuts (which she never got, anyhow)
* Flax

Wow. This eliminates nearly all commercial food. (Trixie eats kibble with a few spoons of wet food.)

DV recommends one of three Royal Canin prescription foods. Royal Canin is a good brand, but those prescription kibbles don't even sound like actual food to me! Hydrolized soy protein? Rabbit or fish "meal"? Potato and potato protein as top five ingredients? I'm very uncomfortable with the dearth of real meat and natural ingredients.

My choice so far is Taste of the Wild Ancient Wetlands with Ancient Grains
https://www.chewy.com/taste-wild-ancien ... /dp/217991.
But that contains duck and I wonder if that is too close to being poultry, which I know EPI4Dogs doesn't recommend. FWIW, though, Trixie's current food is chicken-based and that part doesn't seem to be harming her. I can also get this brand in my small, remote town.

Something perhaps better, but available to me only online, is Canidae Pure Angus beef and barley. But the supply of large bags seems iffy. Even Chewy has it only in 4-pound bags. Amazon has the 28-pound bags, but products seem to come and go a lot on Amazon. And I'm always concerned about something I can't get locally or within a 50-mile radius.

The Sport Dog Elite Herding Breed option that's so often recommended here is out because it contains pork, one of her allergens.

I'd really appreciate any recommendations on other options. I'd like to go on feeding kibble, but if that's not possible, I'd be willing to switch to a homemade diet. Probably not a raw diet, though. DV is dead set against those and has persuaded me.

Any ideas?
Trixie is an Australian cattle dog or mix, likely born in the Fall of 2020. Picked up as a stray, she was already suffering undiagnosed EPI when we adopted her. Test later showed TLI <1 and cobalamin 189.

Her (non-standard) treatment is 1900 mcg of pure freeze-dried pork pancreas from Allergy Research Group per day. Also 1/4 teaspoon of slippery elm powder and 1/2 (previously one) capsule a day of WonderLabs TrinFac-B, all mixed into her food and served immediately, without the usual 20-minute wait.

We feed Canidae Angus Beef and Barley, which may not yet be the perfect food, but she's doing well and has "happy" normal poops.

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Jean
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Location: South Liverpool
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Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
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Re: Update on Trixie and question on special food

Post by Jean » 01 Jun 2022, 11:28

Hi there

when you say itchy can you explain

is it general scratching or is there a region she scratches more or is there any swelling of the muzzle or eyes

was this scatching there before you started enzymes, they are porcine ,so maybe as there is an allergy to pork this is what is causing the itching

can you confirm the question for me, and remind me what enzymes you use
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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TrixEPIMama
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Pet name: Trixie

Re: Update on Trixie and question on special food

Post by TrixEPIMama » 01 Jun 2022, 11:57

Thank you, Jean. Good questions.

Yikes, I hadn't even thought about pork pancreas and Trixie's pork allergy! Duh. We're not giving her enzymes per se, but giving 1900 mcg of pure freeze-dried pork pancreas per day. It's a human-grade product from Allergy Research Group.

As to itching: The most prominent and consistent thing is butt scoots and biting at her butt sometimes so vigorously that it almost seems as if she's trying to suck out her own intestines.

Other forms of itchiness: Biting at her paws and her rear flanks.

No swelling of muzzle or eyes. She did at one point have an infection in both ears, but that was treated.

Unfortunately I can't say for sure when the itching began. I'd say it was there when we first got her and before she'd ever had pork pancreas, but I can't be sure. She was at that time, and still is, on Hill's Science Diet for sensitive stomach and skin, which contains some of her allergens.

One other thing a friend with allergies just pointed out: while pork is among her allergens, it's probably the least of them (103, where 100 is the threshold). He says allergies aren't black/white, yes/no; they're a continuum, and if we can eliminate the worst allergens, the lesser ones will perhaps drop below the allergy threshold.
Trixie is an Australian cattle dog or mix, likely born in the Fall of 2020. Picked up as a stray, she was already suffering undiagnosed EPI when we adopted her. Test later showed TLI <1 and cobalamin 189.

Her (non-standard) treatment is 1900 mcg of pure freeze-dried pork pancreas from Allergy Research Group per day. Also 1/4 teaspoon of slippery elm powder and 1/2 (previously one) capsule a day of WonderLabs TrinFac-B, all mixed into her food and served immediately, without the usual 20-minute wait.

We feed Canidae Angus Beef and Barley, which may not yet be the perfect food, but she's doing well and has "happy" normal poops.

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TrixEPIMama
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Posts: 65
Country: United States
State: Texas
Pet name: Trixie

Re: Update on Trixie and question on special food

Post by TrixEPIMama » 01 Jun 2022, 12:01

BTW, as to the butt scooting and biting: Trixie has been tested and treated for worms multiple times and has had her anal glands expressed, all with no reduction in itchiness.
Trixie is an Australian cattle dog or mix, likely born in the Fall of 2020. Picked up as a stray, she was already suffering undiagnosed EPI when we adopted her. Test later showed TLI <1 and cobalamin 189.

Her (non-standard) treatment is 1900 mcg of pure freeze-dried pork pancreas from Allergy Research Group per day. Also 1/4 teaspoon of slippery elm powder and 1/2 (previously one) capsule a day of WonderLabs TrinFac-B, all mixed into her food and served immediately, without the usual 20-minute wait.

We feed Canidae Angus Beef and Barley, which may not yet be the perfect food, but she's doing well and has "happy" normal poops.

Tuckaboo Pam
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Posts: 1345
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My name: Pam H.

Re: Update on Trixie and question on special food

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 01 Jun 2022, 13:10

You've go a lot going on! The pork pancreas does seem a likely suspect, doesn't it?

My hound recently had an infected anal gland, which started out with scooting, licking, and biting. It finally erupted, but the other one had to be expressed. She ended up on antibiotics, and seems to be doing pretty well, with the following daily rituals---

Have you tried a daily tablespoon of canned pumpkin? That, and Preparation H wipes, held against her hiney a couple times a day, does seem to really help.

The duck ingredient in the food may be fine, as not all EPI dogs do poorly on poultry. You could try a small bag & see how she does. --- Pam
Tucker was a shepherd/lab mix--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Took Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 1 1/2 cups/day, with a total of 4 cups of Fresh Pet. Stopped eating everything in sight, and went from 60 to 85 pounds! Tucker was my boyfriend, and my husband was OK with that. Tucker succumbed to hemangiosarcoma, but we cherished every day we had with that wonderful, beautiful boy. I will always, always miss my sweet big boy.

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Jean
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Location: South Liverpool
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Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
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Re: Update on Trixie and question on special food

Post by Jean » 01 Jun 2022, 13:26

My Kara was intolerant of pork, beef, chicken, rice and various trees !

we were concerned that she couldnt have the enzymes but it wasn't the case

I would be tempted to change the food to grain free, no chicken or poultry fat as its generally chicken, no rice

Lamb based is a good one ,its one we gave Kara for 8 years, this was with vegetables, no peas , look for one with tapioca maybe, I am in UK so not sure which food is best for you, its going to be hard to find one without peas , but you can buy the smallest bag you can find, and introduce it and keep a diary , you could also try an antihistemine, but it does look as if the food is tghe culprit
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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TrixEPIMama
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Posts: 65
Country: United States
State: Texas
Pet name: Trixie

Re: Update on Trixie and question on special food

Post by TrixEPIMama » 01 Jun 2022, 15:14

Hello, Pam, and thank you!
Tuckaboo Pam wrote: 01 Jun 2022, 13:10 You've go a lot going on! The pork pancreas does seem a likely suspect, doesn't it?
Seems as if all of us here (and our dogs and cats) have a lot going on. Dear Vet, who is also a dear friend, keeps apologizing for finding me a "defective dog." I keep telling her she found us exactly the right dog because both my partner and I love her dearly and partner has the financial resources and willingness to do anything for Trixie that she needs. (I'm not sure how I'd manage all her medical expenses and special needs on my own.)

I'm not sure about the pork pancreas. The amount we give her is so small and pork is a minor allergen for her. So maybe it's just wishful thinking, but I'm hoping it's not the problem -- especially since it saved her life!
My hound recently had an infected anal gland, which started out with scooting, licking, and biting. It finally erupted, but the other one had to be expressed. She ended up on antibiotics, and seems to be doing pretty well, with the following daily rituals---

Have you tried a daily tablespoon of canned pumpkin? That, and Preparation H wipes, held against her hiney a couple times a day, does seem to really help.
Your poor pup. I haven't tried that routine, but I gladly will.
The duck ingredient in the food may be fine, as not all EPI dogs do poorly on poultry. You could try a small bag & see how she does. --- Pam
As it happens, the general store in one of the nearby towns has some, and right now it's 25% off. So we may try that. Where I live, it's a minor miracle that something so specialized is available.
Trixie is an Australian cattle dog or mix, likely born in the Fall of 2020. Picked up as a stray, she was already suffering undiagnosed EPI when we adopted her. Test later showed TLI <1 and cobalamin 189.

Her (non-standard) treatment is 1900 mcg of pure freeze-dried pork pancreas from Allergy Research Group per day. Also 1/4 teaspoon of slippery elm powder and 1/2 (previously one) capsule a day of WonderLabs TrinFac-B, all mixed into her food and served immediately, without the usual 20-minute wait.

We feed Canidae Angus Beef and Barley, which may not yet be the perfect food, but she's doing well and has "happy" normal poops.

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TrixEPIMama
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Posts: 65
Country: United States
State: Texas
Pet name: Trixie

Re: Update on Trixie and question on special food

Post by TrixEPIMama » 01 Jun 2022, 15:29

Jean wrote: 01 Jun 2022, 13:26 My Kara was intolerant of pork, beef, chicken, rice and various trees !

we were concerned that she couldnt have the enzymes but it wasn't the case
Yep, none of us around here have -- or I guess in your case had :( -- "easy" critters, do we? Boy, beef, chicken, and rice eliminate an awful lot of common, even premium, foods.
I would be tempted to change the food to grain free, no chicken or poultry fat as its generally chicken, no rice
We may try the Taste of the Wild with duck, since it meets all the other qualifications. But if that doesn't sit well with her, we'll switch.

Her most potent food allergies, according to the test, are corn, oats, and peas. My partner thinks we should find a food without those and not worry too much about her allergies to pork, rice, or flax. I think we should first eliminate them all, then experiment with adding some back in when we see how she does with none of the allergens in her diet.

He personally has a lot of experience with allergies and inflammatory conditions (to the point where he's been asked to be a citizen advisor on several grant-making boards for medical research), while I have very little. But my instincts say to begin with a no-allergen baseline to whatever extent we can. But boy, it's not easy.
Lamb based is a good one ,its one we gave Kara for 8 years, this was with vegetables, no peas , look for one with tapioca maybe, I am in UK so not sure which food is best for you, its going to be hard to find one without peas , but you can buy the smallest bag you can find, and introduce it and keep a diary , you could also try an antihistemine, but it does look as if the food is tghe culprit
I'm only at the beginnings of my food research, and so far most of the lamb-based foods I've seen are lamb and rice. But the quest has a long way to go.

Both the diary and half a diphenhydramine tablet are now on my to-do list.
Trixie is an Australian cattle dog or mix, likely born in the Fall of 2020. Picked up as a stray, she was already suffering undiagnosed EPI when we adopted her. Test later showed TLI <1 and cobalamin 189.

Her (non-standard) treatment is 1900 mcg of pure freeze-dried pork pancreas from Allergy Research Group per day. Also 1/4 teaspoon of slippery elm powder and 1/2 (previously one) capsule a day of WonderLabs TrinFac-B, all mixed into her food and served immediately, without the usual 20-minute wait.

We feed Canidae Angus Beef and Barley, which may not yet be the perfect food, but she's doing well and has "happy" normal poops.

Jane&Clyde
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Posts: 157
Country: United States
Pet name: Clyde
My name: Jane

Re: Update on Trixie and question on special food

Post by Jane&Clyde » 01 Jun 2022, 17:21

If the itchiness is caused by the pork pancreas, you could always try beef pancreas. If I am remembering correctly, the dose for beef is a lot larger than for pork, so be sure to confirm the dosage if you decide to try this.

A couple more foods that you could try...

Sport Dog Elite Sporting Dog (mostly fish, no flax)

Sport Dog Elite Working Dog (mostly Turkey, no flax...Clyde couldn't handle chicken, but he was fine with turkey. Unfortunately, there is no way to know which dogs have difficulty with chicken and/or turkey without trying them.)

Jane&Clyde
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Posts: 157
Country: United States
Pet name: Clyde
My name: Jane

Re: Update on Trixie and question on special food

Post by Jane&Clyde » 01 Jun 2022, 17:52

I forgot to ask...did you hold (not give) the B12 for one week prior to the recheck? It needs to be held prior to the test in order to get an accurate result.

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