Recently diagnosed GSD

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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SarahC55
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Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Reva
My name: Sarah Coton

Re: Recently diagnosed GSD

Post by SarahC55 » 16 Aug 2022, 07:21

Quick update on Reva - she's doing really well, putting on weight and full of energy. We've been struggling with poos of very variable consistency so decided to try another course of antibiotics. She's coming to the end of 2 weeks of oxytetracycline (nice antibiotic which has the added effect that it slows gut motility so allowing more time for digestion/absorbtion before exit) and her poos are currently great and she's showing no signs of coprophagia. So she's still on 4 large meals a day, although I am gradually reducing her mid afternoon one with a view to stopping it altogether over the next few days. Still eating Royal Canin Gastrointestinal but I'm gradually introducing a Millie's Wolfheart grain-free food which looks better quality and more suitable long term for a large energetic breed, and so far so good. She's eating mainly kibble with a couple of spoonfuls of tinned food into which I mix her enzymes before using it to coat the kibble. I'm dividing 3 Lypex capsules between her 4 meals and hoping to reduce that a bit when she's on 3 meals. She's also on B12 and a daily probiotic. So she's well, and I'm feeling more positive. It remains to be seen what happens when she finishes the antibiotics but fingers crossed!

Barb
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Re: Recently diagnosed GSD

Post by Barb » 16 Aug 2022, 08:19

Hi Sarah. Congratulations on a great update. It sounds like Reva is doing really well. I was going to suggest that some dogs are slow gainers when it comes to weight, but Reva is even doing well in that department. Keep up the great work. Jean and our UK members can keep you up to date when she stops the antibiotics.

Barb

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Olesia711
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Re: Recently diagnosed GSD

Post by Olesia711 » 16 Aug 2022, 10:09

Hi Sarah... Sounds like Reva is doing really well..... isn't it wonderful when they start doing better??! Fingers and paws crossed that Revaa dosn't have a relapse in the poo dept once the Oxy course is completed...

What we do with Tylan in some cases (to avoid a possible relapse) is to slowly withdraw from the Tylan after the course is completed...... however, i am not sure if this technique would be appropriate with Oxytetracycline. Maybe ask you vet if after the Oxy course is completed maybe not stop all at once but if you slowly withdraw for another 3 weeks, if that might be beneficial in Reva's case or not..................

Keep us posted! And thanks for the great update!
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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Patsy
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Re: Recently diagnosed GSD

Post by Patsy » 16 Aug 2022, 11:12

Hello, glad you’re getting your head round it. The epi dogs must feel so lousy (ill) at diagnosis.

I can only emphasise strongly that Lypex works beautifully if given at a higher dose. Marti should have weighed 24kg, but dropped to 17 kg. Similar to Reva’s weight. No way could she improve on less than two capsules a meal. And that was with three meals a day on extra rations.
Due to the necrosis in the pancreas, there won’t be an improvement in enzyme and intrinsic factor production.
Although the poop looks better, this signifies there is some digestion, which is great. You may not notice weight gain in the first weeks, because the internal wasting in the entire body and muscles is being attended to. Marti eventually regained some fat under her skin, and looked gorgeous.
Normal range B12 is not good enough for epi dogs because they have to have it added all the time. After injections you may choose tablets, but these must contain Intrinsic Factor or it’s not absorbed in the gut. You need a score of 600.
Prokolin will certainly help solidify poop , but I stopped using it to better understand the poop changes.
As a vet nurse, you may be aware that Tylan is not licensed for pets in the Uk. Some people have got round this by signing a disclaimer. I signed a disclaimer to use the B12 injectable solution for agricultural animals, much cheaper but identical.

You are entering a world of tips and tweaks. I hope we don’t confuse you. There are always ups and downs. We’ve all been there. Just concentrate on one change at a time so that you can see what happens, and make a diary.
Take care, Patsy.
Springer spaniel Marti had Epi, PLE , MMM just to confuse me. She lived till 12yrs, chubby and happy despite eight years of epi.
Capsule enzymes suited her best. B12 supplements made her into a new dog!
After a cocker with PLN kidney disease, I now have two healthy rescues, a lively, suicidal , small ginger terrier, adopted with pneumonia, and gum disease needing nearly all his teeth out, and a fluffy grey toy poodle/terrier from Greece.

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Olesia711
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Re: Recently diagnosed GSD

Post by Olesia711 » 16 Aug 2022, 12:10

thanks Patsy for contributing to the conversation..... your input helps :)!
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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SarahC55
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Posts: 8
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Reva
My name: Sarah Coton

Re: Recently diagnosed GSD

Post by SarahC55 » 16 Aug 2022, 12:54

Thank you Patsy and Olesia! Certainly some helpful thoughts there. I'm anticipating probably one Lypase per meal long term - she's doing well now we seem to be sorting out the SIBO and has actually gained 3kg since diagnosis, most of it in the past month! Due her last Oxytet dose tomorrow but I have some left so probably a good idea to reduce them gradually - will do that and touch base with vet later in the week. I think I probably need to keep a supply handy to use when I need as, reading other peoples' experiences, SIBO seems to be a regular and largely unavoidable occurrence. And I probably need to check blood cobalamine levels soon although she's disgustingly well in herself and on 2 x B12 capsules daily.
Will I need to continue the B12 supplementation and probiotic indefinitely or will she be able to try without? The probiotic's fine - not sure if its possible to overdo the B12.
I'm gradually reducing her feed ration before she gets too porky!

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Olesia711
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Re: Recently diagnosed GSD

Post by Olesia711 » 16 Aug 2022, 13:08

i used to call overly porkiness " Pleasantly Plump" ... and i LOVEd when my EPI gal was at that stage.. not too much, but just a little... to compensate for those set-backs when they have a little difficulty.

MAybe call your vet and ask them if slowly reducing is something you can do with Oxy.... even though we do this with Tylan (Tylosin Tartrate) not all antibiotics are the same..... so ask first before doing... if your vet agrees... then the withdrawal technique we use with Tylan is after the course is finished.... we don't stop cold turkey but rather do the following:

for 1 week give 1/2 dose morning and night
for the next week give 1/2 dose once a day
for the next and last week give 1/2 dose (once a day) every other day and then stop

just ask the vet if this would or would not be appropriate to do with Oxy.... cuz i honestly don't know but also don't want to give you incorrect information.
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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SarahC55
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Posts: 8
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Reva
My name: Sarah Coton

Re: Recently diagnosed GSD

Post by SarahC55 » 16 Aug 2022, 13:41

Thanks Olesia. I'm a recently retired vet nurse so fairly familiar with use of oxytet for gut problems - although I haven't seen a case of EPI for several years before Reva decided to spring this on me! I do know the vets prescribe long term low dose oxytetracycline for some dogs with persistent recurring diarrhoea and IBD though, usually because of the slowing effect it has on peristalsis, and reading Roger Batt's 2002 paper it looks like that may be something that might be useful. Will make an appointment for a full review I think as we planned on blood testing again at some point around now. I'll keep you posted! Many thanks for all the support - this is a brilliant site and has been so helpful during this stressful time! :)

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Olesia711
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Posts: 3858
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Recently diagnosed GSD

Post by Olesia711 » 16 Aug 2022, 19:05

ahhh.... so you are in the medical field... EXCELLENT!!!! I try to be very careful with certain suggestions especially with meds that i do not have first hand experience or knowledge about. And these EPi dogs can throw you for a loop too ! THey don't always respond accordingly....

Thanks for your kind words about this site... everyone really, REALLY tried their best to help others and we do our best to put up the most recent and accurate EPI related materials and research.
GOod Luck and do keep us posted!
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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