Poop 😬

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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Tara
Member
Posts: 12
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Toby
My name: Tara

Poop 😬

Post by Tara » 20 Aug 2022, 07:34

Hi all, question about Toby’s poop. His first poop of the day is firm but browny yellow in colour then his second and third are softer fatter and still a yellow brown. He’ll poop about 6/7 times a day and they’re all yellow brown and firm to formed but soft.

Reading up on this type of poop is it’s not being digested properly and passing through the gut too quickly.
Is that due to not enough enzymes or too much food for his tummy?

He’s on Arden Grange Sensitive White Fish and potato Wet food. He has 1000g split between 4 meals with a Lypex capsule sprinkled on each meal.

Any ideas/suggestions would be most appreciated.
Thank you x

Tuckaboo Pam
Member
Posts: 1345
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: Poop 😬

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 20 Aug 2022, 08:28

Hi Tara. So many questions about poop, which I understand completely!

Tucker poops many times a day, which I cannot figure out. His poop is not perfect, but it is very dark brown/black, and I have learned that is because of the color of his food. I can pick it up, but it's softer than my other dogs'. Is the whitefish & potato food yellow-brown in color, maybe? Is it less than 4% fiber? Also, since the food is wet, there is a different ratio of food to enzymes. I am not familiar with lypex, but Jean & Patsy are, and can give more guidance on this.

It is common for members to report morning poop to be better than the ones that come later, but the reason may not be known.

Are you treating for SID? I just skimmed through your original post, and I'm not sure whether you are. Here's a link to the page, with details about this condition, which ALLLLL EPI dogs have! https://epi4dogs.com/sidsibo-in-brief/ If you are not treating for it, you may want to get some slippery elm powder & try it for a few days. That's enough time to know whether or not it is working. Then there are antibiotics, if needed, but NOT metronidazole.

Be sure & keep a journal of what you are doing, making only one change at a time, so you can follow the results better. I hope some of this is helpful. If you are not seeing pieces of food in Toby's poop, and if the color matches the kibble, it is very possible that's the reason for the color, but it wouldn't be the reason for the softness.

---Pam
Tucker was a shepherd/lab mix--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Took Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 1 1/2 cups/day, with a total of 4 cups of Fresh Pet. Stopped eating everything in sight, and went from 60 to 85 pounds! Tucker was my boyfriend, and my husband was OK with that. Tucker succumbed to hemangiosarcoma, but we cherished every day we had with that wonderful, beautiful boy. I will always, always miss my sweet big boy.

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jilbert57
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Posts: 2091
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Poop 😬

Post by jilbert57 » 20 Aug 2022, 10:05

Hi Tara, does your pup get a lot of exercise sustained at any one time? I know when I would run with Kiya her first poop was perfect but subsequent through the day they tended to get looser.(she did not have Epi)
Pam has given you a lot of good advice.
The only things I can see might be an issue in the food is the white potato and pea protein. When looking at the dry food analysis(after taking the moisture content out of the equation which is 80%) they might play a part as some Epi pups do not do well on them. Just keep in mind if after doing the B12 and antibiotic and enzyme the poop still is not good.

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

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Jean
Forum Director
Posts: 1707
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: Poop 😬

Post by Jean » 20 Aug 2022, 13:36

sounds like SIBO sorry USA people we still call it that over here

Small intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth

so we need antibiotics

I am so sorry I should have sent you some Tylan and I will if you want it, t is a very gentle antibiotic which does not interfere with the good bugs and flora in the gut

SIBO is basically a disruption of gut balance and it hurts, literally, I cant remember if I told you, but I have a human friend with EPI and she had to have antibiotics all of her life as did Kara, the pain is something like a period pain only worse, if you can get your head round that, wonderful conversaions with Rose in hospital and her specialist

let me know and I will send you some

By the way I am not a drug dealer these were donated !

Jc
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

Tara
Member
Posts: 12
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Toby
My name: Tara

Re: Poop 😬

Post by Tara » 20 Aug 2022, 16:24

Thanks Pam, Jill & Jean for your replies. A lot to take on board so I’ve taken notes 😊

We’re currently reluctant to change his food just incase he does have IBD as well as EPI, the vet has suggested that it could have been EPI all along and that he doesn’t have IBD but when he’s stable we might change his food to something more suitable for EPI.
The foods a brown colour and the the fibre is 0.5%…cans are 395g.

He only gets toilet walks at the moment as he’s got no meat on his bones 🙁

I wasn’t sure whether it would be SIBO as other than the poop he’s not showing any other symptoms.
I do have a tree bark powder that has 50% slippery elm, 40% marshmallow root and 10% white poplar bark, made by a company called Dorwest. Would this be ok? It has EPI support when used alongside medication in the description.

Yes please Jean to the Tylan… I’ve heard of it but don’t know what it is so I’ll have a Google. Let me know the postage and packaging costs 😊

I’ll mention it to the vet Monday and not to accept metronidazole!

What’s the best probiotic/prebiotic too?

Thanks again everyone xx

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Patsy
Member
Posts: 264
Country: United Kingdom - England

Re: Poop 😬

Post by Patsy » 20 Aug 2022, 16:54

Has the food got visible peas in it, that you could remove? Otherwise it’s a good food for epi. I tried the ArdenGrange dry version with my dog but it didnt agree, it had chicken oil in it.
Is the poop sometimes dark on the outside and yellow inside?
Springer spaniel Marti had Epi, PLE , MMM just to confuse me. She lived till 12yrs, chubby and happy despite eight years of epi.
Capsule enzymes suited her best. B12 supplements made her into a new dog!
After a cocker with PLN kidney disease, I now have two healthy rescues, a lively, suicidal , small ginger terrier, adopted with pneumonia, and gum disease needing nearly all his teeth out, and a fluffy grey toy poodle/terrier from Greece.

Tara
Member
Posts: 12
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Toby
My name: Tara

Re: Poop 😬

Post by Tara » 20 Aug 2022, 16:59

Hi Patsy,
The peas are visible so we’ll pick them out.

That’s naughty the dry version having chicken oil in it! When Toby was on Purina proplan HA he was fine on the wet food but the same in dry food gave him diarrhoea.

As for his poop we’ve not noticed them dark on the outside and yellow inside but Andy will check tomorrow as he does the morning walking.

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Jean
Forum Director
Posts: 1707
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: Poop 😬

Post by Jean » 22 Aug 2022, 07:53

i will send you a tub and it is weight dosed

https://epi4dogs.com/antibiotics/

it is very bitter and dont rub your eyes if it gets on your fingers

Jeanx
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

Tara
Member
Posts: 12
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Toby
My name: Tara

Re: Poop 😬

Post by Tara » 22 Aug 2022, 08:35

Many thanks again Jean xx

Sound advice too…definitely won’t be eating it or putting it in my eyes 😄

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