Sushi's Saga

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 3857
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Sushi's Saga

Post by Olesia711 » 27 Jan 2023, 19:38

thanks for the link!
hmm... the peas in the food you are using now is way down the list, so that shouldn't be a problem.........

Sorry your hubby doesn't like the fishy smell in TOTW...... just an observation, but it seems like quite a few EPi dogs do well on fish based foods.... especially white fish based foods..... of course this is no guarantee that it will work well with Sushi....

I think your plan about being more stricter is a very good start :)

Please Keep us posted and ask any questions you may have along the way.

I know it is a real pain to have to try things one-at-a-time and to be consistent..... but that is the best way to figure out what the trigger might be..............
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

Beatrice
Member
Posts: 44
Country: Canada
Pet name: Sushi
My name: Beatrice

Re: Sushi's Saga

Post by Beatrice » 27 Jan 2023, 20:05

Thanks ever so much Olesia. If it wasn't for your organization, we probably would have been on a wild goose chase, wasting a lot of money and stressing ourselves out.
TLI 3.1
1 Pet Factor B12, 1 small scoop of aventi GI complete pre/probiotic
Enzyme Diane in EC HPMC delayed release capsule (1 full capsule + 1/2 capsule for each meal)
Nutrience Grain-Free Subzero Prairie Red (up to 2 cups if no other meat given)
AM 1/2 cup of kibble, plain yogourt with 1/2 banana
Noon 1/2 cup of cooked meat + boiled egg
3:30pm 1/2 cooked meat + boiled egg
6pm 3/4 cup of cooked meat
9pm 1/2 of kibble
apple, peanut butter snacks with enzyme capsule

User avatar
Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 3857
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Sushi's Saga

Post by Olesia711 » 27 Jan 2023, 20:08

Ahh thanks for your kind words.. it's all about epi people helping othe epi people!
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

LucysMom
Member
Posts: 5
Country: United States
State: Ohio
Pet name: Lucy
My name: Renee

Re: Sushi's Saga

Post by LucysMom » 05 Feb 2023, 08:40

Welcome!
I, like you, was ever grateful to find this site. Everyone had great info, and you need to find what works for you and your Sushi.

We have two Doodles - one with EPI, so we've been trying to continue to treat our babies as equally as possible.

The best thing we did for the "WAIT TIME" while they're watching me doctor up Lucy's food.... An old fashioned dial timer that dings when it's time. They watch me turn the dial. I leave it on the stove in their sight, so they hear it tick. They'll go lie down wherever in the house now, and as soon as that bell dings, they meet me in the kitchen for "TIME TO EAT!". Just like Pavlov. And our smarty-pant doodles learned this within 3 meals.

Hang in there. It's a big adjustment and a lot of work to figure out your routine, but it's worth it - especially when you start to see your pupper returning to her old self.

Good luck!!
--Lucy's Mom, Renee
Lucy: F1 Goldendoodle, DOB 2/28/2017, "sister" to F1B Linus
EPI Diagnosis: At age 5yr 11 mo after rapid weight loss (3/28/2022: 63.4 lbs, 11/21/22: 55.0 lbs, 12/28/22: 50.0 lbs, 1/5/23: 49.3 lbs), hind end weakness, and poop index 6. Dx'd with cTLI of 2.6, Cobalamin of 251, No indication of Pancreatitis (Lipase Immuno: 30).
Current Diet: 1 c NutraSource Large Breed Chicken with Rice, 1.5 c Steve's Raw Chicken w/ 3/4 tsp Panzquin w/Cobalequin 2x per day

User avatar
Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 3857
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Sushi's Saga

Post by Olesia711 » 05 Feb 2023, 19:34

thanks for sharing that Renee.... that's a great little 'training trick" to teach our EPI dogs regarding food wait time :)
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

Beatrice
Member
Posts: 44
Country: Canada
Pet name: Sushi
My name: Beatrice

Re: Sushi's Saga

Post by Beatrice » 06 Feb 2023, 15:16

LucysMom wrote: 05 Feb 2023, 08:40 Welcome!
I, like you, was ever grateful to find this site. Everyone had great info, and you need to find what works for you and your Sushi.

We have two Doodles - one with EPI, so we've been trying to continue to treat our babies as equally as possible.

The best thing we did for the "WAIT TIME" while they're watching me doctor up Lucy's food.... An old fashioned dial timer that dings when it's time. They watch me turn the dial. I leave it on the stove in their sight, so they hear it tick. They'll go lie down wherever in the house now, and as soon as that bell dings, they meet me in the kitchen for "TIME TO EAT!". Just like Pavlov. And our smarty-pant doodles learned this within 3 meals.

Hang in there. It's a big adjustment and a lot of work to figure out your routine, but it's worth it - especially when you start to see your pupper returning to her old self.

Good luck!!
Thank you Renee. We used the timer at first. Everytime she heard the ring, she went absolutely crazy so we stopped it. Now she sits and drools all over the floor.
TLI 3.1
1 Pet Factor B12, 1 small scoop of aventi GI complete pre/probiotic
Enzyme Diane in EC HPMC delayed release capsule (1 full capsule + 1/2 capsule for each meal)
Nutrience Grain-Free Subzero Prairie Red (up to 2 cups if no other meat given)
AM 1/2 cup of kibble, plain yogourt with 1/2 banana
Noon 1/2 cup of cooked meat + boiled egg
3:30pm 1/2 cooked meat + boiled egg
6pm 3/4 cup of cooked meat
9pm 1/2 of kibble
apple, peanut butter snacks with enzyme capsule

Beatrice
Member
Posts: 44
Country: Canada
Pet name: Sushi
My name: Beatrice

Re: Sushi's Saga

Post by Beatrice » 15 Feb 2023, 13:43

We have been testing for over 2 weeks.

WEEK 1-Kibble only, same amount of enzyme and pre/probiotic

Day 1&2-perfect brown poop
Day 3-softer, segmented poop
Day 4&5-AM-softer, foul-smelling poop
-Mid-AM-first part firm, last part very soft stool
-PM-poop was runny and extremely foul-smelling
-pre/probiotic dose reduced by 1/2
Day 6-yellow pile of extremely foul-smelling poop

WEEK 2-kibble only, new EnzymeDiane with a lower potency 90,440U/2.8g (previous was 98K/2.1g)

Day 7&8-soft, segmented poop that can be picked up without residue
-normal poop smell
Day 9-started new enzyme with a bit lower potency-So I thought I'd try this for 1 week
-soft brown segmented poop that can be picked up without residue
Day 10-->15 Same poop as Day 9
Day 16 -AM poop
Day 16 AM poop.jpg
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-PM poop -this came out of nowhere
Day 16 PM Poop.jpg
Day 16 PM Poop.jpg (1.71 MiB) Viewed 7716 times
WEEK 3-Kibble only, enzyme capsules filled to almost 100% full vs 3/4 full for the previous weeks

Day 17-AM poop -soft
Day 17 AM poop.jpg
Day 17 AM poop.jpg (1.81 MiB) Viewed 7716 times
PM poop-a bit firmer

After 2 weeks, I can demonstrate to my husband that a kibble only diet still results in these wild poo swings.

I did not mention the last update that Sushi does burp here and there. Her stomach rumbles a lot especially when she lies down and I massage her stomach. She passes less gas now.

Note-Since Sushi has been on enzymes, I noticed 3 bouts of soft/loose stools that were extremely foul-smelling. Usually infectious diarrhea is very stinky.

After 2 weeks, I am leaning towards SIDS but I want to test some more on the enzyme dose. So far, after 3 days of increased enzyme dose, the poop is still soft. I am thinking to try a reduced enzyme dose to see how things go. But I am a bit scared of what might happen.
TLI 3.1
1 Pet Factor B12, 1 small scoop of aventi GI complete pre/probiotic
Enzyme Diane in EC HPMC delayed release capsule (1 full capsule + 1/2 capsule for each meal)
Nutrience Grain-Free Subzero Prairie Red (up to 2 cups if no other meat given)
AM 1/2 cup of kibble, plain yogourt with 1/2 banana
Noon 1/2 cup of cooked meat + boiled egg
3:30pm 1/2 cooked meat + boiled egg
6pm 3/4 cup of cooked meat
9pm 1/2 of kibble
apple, peanut butter snacks with enzyme capsule

User avatar
Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 3857
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Sushi's Saga

Post by Olesia711 » 15 Feb 2023, 14:31

I agree with you... this most likely is SID. Especially with the burping and tummy grumblings, although things must be improving a bit if she is passing a little less gas...... but these are all indications of SID.

Just a FYI... the day 17 softer poo, although not ideal, is still acceptable.... but that splat of poo...definitely not acceptable.

Continue with everything the same BUT try adding 1 tsp of canned pumpkin to the meals - -try this for maybe 3 days and record whether or not this makes things better or worse.

If worse, then a change needs to be made, not sure if you should start with the kibble or try a different pre+probiotic or worst-case scenario...do a course of Tylan antibiotic.... but the still brown color of the "splat" poo.. kind of leads me to first suspect some ingredient in something (usually the food/kibble, but maybe that brand of pre+probiotic) needs to be changed........ but............ before banging your head against the wall trying to figure out what ingredient could be the problem..... first lets see if maybe a little of the right kind of fiber is what is needed.............

thanks for the pics... they are extremely helpful... and thank YOU for taking the time and doing the tedious" one-step-at-a-time" trial.... this is what really helps even if it is a pain to do............ you are obviously a very good care-taker!
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

Beatrice
Member
Posts: 44
Country: Canada
Pet name: Sushi
My name: Beatrice

Re: Sushi's Saga

Post by Beatrice » 05 Oct 2023, 15:26

Hello everyone!

Sushi turns 4 today.

Sushi Oct 2022
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Sushi April 2023
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Sushi today
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Today's Poop
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In February, after doubling the enzyme dose and still getting wild poop swings, I decided to drastically 1/2 the dose. That didn't last for long with the poo splats. Then the dose was incrementally increased. Note that the enzymes are encapsulated in EC capsules. As of March, although Sushi has occasional poops of soft ice cream consistency, Sushi has not had a poo splat since. In June, she has regained all her weight. Pre/Probiotic dose decreased to 1/4. Now, I am deciding whether I want to turn her into a chunky monkey. ( This would not be a problem. :lol: )

We have been giving Sushi watermelon, carrot, strawberry, pear... with no problems. Some of the ice cream consistency poop probably came from my husband's enzyme indiscretions. "Oh it's just a few pieces of apple.."

Now it's bootcamp for Sushi. She's been so reactive to other dogs that I am afraid of lawsuits. Also more obedience training is required especially when it comes to eating.

THANK YOU OLESIA AND YOUR TEAM FOR ALL YOUR KIND WORDS AND DEDICATION. I learn the word microbiome from here. When I was in school 30 years ago, it was called the microflora. Now, I will look at each cotazym, creon prescription with more understanding and empathy for the patient.
TLI 3.1
1 Pet Factor B12, 1 small scoop of aventi GI complete pre/probiotic
Enzyme Diane in EC HPMC delayed release capsule (1 full capsule + 1/2 capsule for each meal)
Nutrience Grain-Free Subzero Prairie Red (up to 2 cups if no other meat given)
AM 1/2 cup of kibble, plain yogourt with 1/2 banana
Noon 1/2 cup of cooked meat + boiled egg
3:30pm 1/2 cooked meat + boiled egg
6pm 3/4 cup of cooked meat
9pm 1/2 of kibble
apple, peanut butter snacks with enzyme capsule

Beatrice
Member
Posts: 44
Country: Canada
Pet name: Sushi
My name: Beatrice

Re: Sushi's Saga

Post by Beatrice » 05 Oct 2023, 16:19

Sushi has the occasional stomach rumblings and she belches right after eating at times. But we have not witnessed her vomiting nor regurgitating her food. She used to vomit bile and regurgitate often.
TLI 3.1
1 Pet Factor B12, 1 small scoop of aventi GI complete pre/probiotic
Enzyme Diane in EC HPMC delayed release capsule (1 full capsule + 1/2 capsule for each meal)
Nutrience Grain-Free Subzero Prairie Red (up to 2 cups if no other meat given)
AM 1/2 cup of kibble, plain yogourt with 1/2 banana
Noon 1/2 cup of cooked meat + boiled egg
3:30pm 1/2 cooked meat + boiled egg
6pm 3/4 cup of cooked meat
9pm 1/2 of kibble
apple, peanut butter snacks with enzyme capsule

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