Sushi's Saga

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 3858
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Sushi's Saga

Post by Olesia711 » 21 Aug 2022, 23:07

yes... it is wise to check around for the best prices !

Please know that even though i am impressed with the ingredients, if it doesn't it appear to be helping Sushi then no need to stick with it, and best to try something else... but if it appears to agree with her, i would definitely stick with it .
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

Beatrice
Member
Posts: 44
Country: Canada
Pet name: Sushi
My name: Beatrice

Re: Sushi's Saga

Post by Beatrice » 24 Aug 2022, 10:31

Olesia711 wrote: 23 Aug 2022, 23:24 So sorry... 8x is stronger than normal pancreatic enzymes.... sometimes giving too much enzymes with also trigger sloppy poos.Thought about this too.

With 8x you should start with either a level 1/2 tsp or 3/4 tsp of enzymes per 1 cup of food.I use 3/4 tsp per cup. Same for the homecooked meal. But I thought about giving 1/2 tsp.

Does the poo look pinkish or purple-ish? If so, call you vet, and tell him what the poo looks like... if it looks like a meat grinder got at it and if it is pink looking or has a purple-ish hue.. and if it is jelly -like.... then call the emergency vet now ... as this sounds like it could be something that needs attention like gastroenteritis .Just a part of the poo has this maroon colour. The rest are grainy looking but not jelly like. She burped and stomach rumbled a bit the last 3 days. Sushi has been ringing the bell at 3am then 6am the previous 2 nights before. She just peed and wanted to hang around outside. But last night, she pooed a big pile at 1am and a small poo that was loose. She then rang the bell again and again from 4:40 to 5:30am. Only when my husband slept downstairs then she stopped. We haven't slept properly for the last 3 nights.

If it doesn't have any of what i am describing above...... let us know the amount of enzymes you are giving per cup of food....as maybe that is the issue..... and with regards to food... see if you can get "Taste of the Wild - Pacific Stream" that might work..... but for now... feed something VERY bland... maybe scrambled eggs and with mashed potato....I will try to get it. Otherwise, I will pick something grain-free and <4% fiber

Oh... and going forward, it will be better if you post all your posts on the original thread you started (Sushi's Saga)OK

Have you had the actual TLI test done yet?Vet is in Europe. I can telemed with her but I thought I'd wait until she comes back.
Last edited by Beatrice on 24 Aug 2022, 10:35, edited 1 time in total.
TLI 3.1
1 Pet Factor B12, 1 small scoop of aventi GI complete pre/probiotic
Enzyme Diane in EC HPMC delayed release capsule (1 full capsule + 1/2 capsule for each meal)
Nutrience Grain-Free Subzero Prairie Red (up to 2 cups if no other meat given)
AM 1/2 cup of kibble, plain yogourt with 1/2 banana
Noon 1/2 cup of cooked meat + boiled egg
3:30pm 1/2 cooked meat + boiled egg
6pm 3/4 cup of cooked meat
9pm 1/2 of kibble
apple, peanut butter snacks with enzyme capsule

Beatrice
Member
Posts: 44
Country: Canada
Pet name: Sushi
My name: Beatrice

Re: Sushi's Saga

Post by Beatrice » 24 Aug 2022, 10:34

Montgomery wrote: 24 Aug 2022, 01:26 I couldn't find food that Montgomery could eat, either, so I make his food and he's thriving. I get the completer from knowwhatyoufeed.com (they make one for dogs, too), and the rest of his diet comes from the grocery store, except for the chicken livers which come from homesalive.ca. It doesn't work for everyone, but it may be something to consider as it gives you control over what you want to include in their food.
Thanks for the info. I would like to do homecooked meals. But I am not sure if I have enough nutrition per meal for her. And my husband doesn't want to if we need to board her.
TLI 3.1
1 Pet Factor B12, 1 small scoop of aventi GI complete pre/probiotic
Enzyme Diane in EC HPMC delayed release capsule (1 full capsule + 1/2 capsule for each meal)
Nutrience Grain-Free Subzero Prairie Red (up to 2 cups if no other meat given)
AM 1/2 cup of kibble, plain yogourt with 1/2 banana
Noon 1/2 cup of cooked meat + boiled egg
3:30pm 1/2 cooked meat + boiled egg
6pm 3/4 cup of cooked meat
9pm 1/2 of kibble
apple, peanut butter snacks with enzyme capsule

User avatar
Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 3858
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Sushi's Saga

Post by Olesia711 » 24 Aug 2022, 21:04

Hi Beatrice.... okay.. thanks for giving further details about the poo.... it does not sound like an emergency now... i just wasn't sure last night and wanted to make sure that if it was, you got her the care she needed.

SInce you are not sure if this is or is not EPI... the next thing to do is try less enzymes (go with 1/2 tsp, be sure to add some liquid and let it sit in the food for 20 minutes)... and see if this improves or worsens the poo.

The waking you up and going multiple times at night ... if this is EPI ...... could be SID.... especially when you also mentioned that she burped and her stomach rumbled ... that sure sounds like it could be a possibility.... but just not sure ... yet.
]
SInce your vet is in Europe you are kind of at a standstill with the TLI blood test..... however.. if the loose stools continue.... maybe you can email your vet, expain what is going on nd ask her if she could call in a script for you for Sushi for Tylan (Tylosin tartrate soluble antibiotic powder) for SID (small intestinal dysbiosis)... but do tell her you DO NOT want to give the dog any Metronidzole (Flagyl).. if the vet can't do this t this time, no worries... jsut wait until she come back and hopefully we can figure this out without using Tylan..............
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

Beatrice
Member
Posts: 44
Country: Canada
Pet name: Sushi
My name: Beatrice

Re: Sushi's Saga

Post by Beatrice » 24 Aug 2022, 23:09

Thanks Olesia.

I did find a small bag of Taste of the Wild Pacific Stream. So will try the new kibble and work on the enzyme dose.
TLI 3.1
1 Pet Factor B12, 1 small scoop of aventi GI complete pre/probiotic
Enzyme Diane in EC HPMC delayed release capsule (1 full capsule + 1/2 capsule for each meal)
Nutrience Grain-Free Subzero Prairie Red (up to 2 cups if no other meat given)
AM 1/2 cup of kibble, plain yogourt with 1/2 banana
Noon 1/2 cup of cooked meat + boiled egg
3:30pm 1/2 cooked meat + boiled egg
6pm 3/4 cup of cooked meat
9pm 1/2 of kibble
apple, peanut butter snacks with enzyme capsule

User avatar
Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 3858
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Sushi's Saga

Post by Olesia711 » 25 Aug 2022, 00:05

thanks for letting me know .... introduce the food slowly....over the course of a few days.... it seems like some of these younger dogs cannot handle drastic changes in diet... so start with just a tablespoon of the new food the first meal... and then increase a little at a time... 1/4 up, then 1/2 cup etc........

keep me posted.

The ironic thing is that i too have a 1yr + 2 mo old Std Poodle.... who has the same looking poo like yours the initial picture and my dog even looks like your dog... (the poo that you initially posted brown with some yellow chunks in it ws identical to what i saw my dog doing). THis is not my EPi dog.... however... i am testing things one at a time... and a TLI test might very well be in my dog's future too!

We jsut did a CBC panel and his ALT liver enzymes was up. SO i started with SAM-e, Welactin Omega 3 oil (just in case this is a liver problem).... BUT.... for my dog, what has helped is adding cooked brown rice to his meal..... but we go thru weeks of good poo and then a days of crappy poo... and then back to good poo... it is driving me nuts! SO far i have learned that anything poultry appears to give my dog looser stools.... so i have avoided that for months now....but i am keeping a record that details food, poo and exercise... so it may take me a while, but i am hoping to figure out what in the world is going on.

Here is a pic of my pup, Cody ... look a little familiar???:Image
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Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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Montgomery
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Posts: 418
Country: Canada
Pet name: Montgomery (I'm a CAT!)
My name: V

Re: Sushi's Saga

Post by Montgomery » 25 Aug 2022, 00:15

Thanks for the info. I would like to do homecooked meals. But I am not sure if I have enough nutrition per meal for her. And my husband doesn't want to if we need to board her.
[/quote]

I worked within Montgomery's naturopath's parametres, and also joined Feed Cats Like Cats, and did other research besides. Montgomery eats extra lean ground chicken, lean ground beef, hard-cooked egg and ground, freeze-dried chicken livers (all of his food is cooked, 1/3 cupful water per pound of raw meat, cook until well-done). Once it's cooled down, the liver and the Alnutrin go in. If there is somewhere you regularly bord her, ask about dogs on home-cooked diets. They may have a freezer, since it is becoming more popular.
Montgomery was born 20 March 2012. He eats extra lean ground chicken, lean ground pork and lean ground beef completed with Alnutrin and freeze-dried chicken liver, with hard-cooked egg. He gets two size zero capsules of Enzyme Diane's enzymes at each of his six meals, and a size four capsule of Tylan three times a day. He's a fierce little Spitfire with a roaring Merlin engine.

Beatrice
Member
Posts: 44
Country: Canada
Pet name: Sushi
My name: Beatrice

Re: Sushi's Saga

Post by Beatrice » 25 Aug 2022, 10:31

Olesia-Wawa..What a cutie. I read about your Cody's ALT and wonder too since Sushi's ALT and neutrophils are up from the CBC. Vet mentioned about giving her "liver pill" but I wanted to try enzymes first. And the enzymes did make a huge difference. I'll take wild swings in the poop over washing that terrible oil leak. Before she started the enzymes, every morning I would check her behind and cry when I see the leak. She is gaining weight but I still feel the ribs, hipbones... I told my husband I don't trust the scale. So today or tomorrow, we'll get her weighed at the vet. I think there's a replacement vet, I might as well as make an appt with him/her. Maybe the replacement knows about EPI.

V/Montgomery-I think I will switch over to homecooked meals entirely. My husband is not crazy about the raw stuff. Do you have to board Montgomery and how do you prepare for that with homecooked meals?
TLI 3.1
1 Pet Factor B12, 1 small scoop of aventi GI complete pre/probiotic
Enzyme Diane in EC HPMC delayed release capsule (1 full capsule + 1/2 capsule for each meal)
Nutrience Grain-Free Subzero Prairie Red (up to 2 cups if no other meat given)
AM 1/2 cup of kibble, plain yogourt with 1/2 banana
Noon 1/2 cup of cooked meat + boiled egg
3:30pm 1/2 cooked meat + boiled egg
6pm 3/4 cup of cooked meat
9pm 1/2 of kibble
apple, peanut butter snacks with enzyme capsule

User avatar
Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 3858
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Sushi's Saga

Post by Olesia711 » 25 Aug 2022, 11:10

Hi Beatrice,,, we don't have the "leaky" oil problem... just that crazy yellow chunks of poo mixed in with the regular formed poo.... and then every so often, we'd have a blow out of soft runny yellow poo... but next day it goes back to his normal formed brown with yellow chunks. And i have changed nothing in the meal.....

BUT i started keeping track of when we play outside... and anytime we play "keep away" with the jolly ball.... Cody chomps on weeds while playing.... a weird thing he does... vet said eating inappropriate things like certain weeds can also do this..... as can feeing him bites of LANCE's cheese cracker with peanut butter as trets that my husband does.... so maybe too much wrong kind of fat? maybe some crappy chemical that is setting him off???

I am not ruling EPI out, cause i am going to have him tested.... i did try plant enzymes, they did NOT make any difference at all.... so i tried 1/16 of a tsp of 6x enzymes and that made the poo smaller but when i add 1 tblsp of cooked brown rice, THAT made the biggst difference..... the poos firmed up. , but i did have a few days of sloppy poo where the enzymes did not help.... so i really don't know what is going on.... and at least if i have the TLI test run.... i can get a base line of how well he digests fat or not and if that could be the underlying issues whether he might be leaning towards EPI or Pancreatitis... or neither!

One thing i HAVE figured out is to NOT make any kind of change all at once but to slowing ease into trying something new.

.....except for when i started the Sam-E and Omega 3.... that i did all at once according to instructions (dose by weight) he was in the throes of yellow mushy poo... and two days later his poo firmed up..... but again..... a few weeks later, he had a bad day... so in our case... something is triggering this.............. and i need to find out what. Such fun....... NOT!!!!$#!!!!#^&*$@!!!!

Just a FYI..... and especially since your vet suggested it.... i would definitely try the SAM-e (i am guessing this is the liver supplement your vet recommended....) it won't hurt if not needed and you can continue with it even if not a liver issue.... and of course the Omega 3 is beneficial no matter what the problem is!
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

User avatar
Montgomery
Member
Posts: 418
Country: Canada
Pet name: Montgomery (I'm a CAT!)
My name: V

Re: Sushi's Saga

Post by Montgomery » 25 Aug 2022, 13:36

V/Montgomery-I think I will switch over to homecooked meals entirely. My husband is not crazy about the raw stuff. Do you have to board Montgomery and how do you prepare for that with homecooked meals?
[/quote]

I've never tried boarding Montgomery. He is not co-operative with anyone but us. He will not open his mouth, take his enzymes, or eat. He has been known to loudly scream, urinate, and kick. Yes, he's a brat, and it's my fault, and I love him beyond all reason.
If I was going to board him, obviously the place would have to be comfortable with special-needs cats and able to adminster his enzymes (capsules) before each meal. He eats six meals a day. If a place is comfortable with that, then they should be able to handle defrosting and heating up his food. I would likely use York Professional Pet Sitters, who come into the home, but, barring that, I would consult my veterinarian for a capable boarder.
Like tinned food, cooked food will keep a few days in the refrigerator, stored correctly. Montgomery is just shy of nine pounds. His food is stored in glass baby food jars we bought from Amazon. It gets spooned into his ceramic dish, mixed, nuked (heating it may or may not be an issue with dogs...? He won't eat it if it isn't properly warmed.) and, after he's had his enzymes, served.
I guess, it comes down to how comfortable you are with the boarding facility. You're going to have a dog with special dietary requirements no matter what you feed. They need their enzymes with each meal. They may not have treats or sample anyone else's food, or snack between meals. If they can follow all these instructions, plus whatever is particular to your dog (do they need a flat plate? Water in the food? Nutritional yeast sprinkles?), then a home-cooked diet shouldn't be an issue. Remember, "alternative" diets are becomming more and more common. A lot of boarding facilities will already be familiar with feeding raw and home-cooked diets.
I'm a rambler. I hope I'm making some sense here. I was nervous about cooking for the little monster initially, and the first batch or two were a bit of a challenge (I'm vegan, and this is really the first time I've ever cooked meat). We've got it down to a science, now, though!
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Montgomery was born 20 March 2012. He eats extra lean ground chicken, lean ground pork and lean ground beef completed with Alnutrin and freeze-dried chicken liver, with hard-cooked egg. He gets two size zero capsules of Enzyme Diane's enzymes at each of his six meals, and a size four capsule of Tylan three times a day. He's a fierce little Spitfire with a roaring Merlin engine.

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