Bad Breath

[PipersMom]

Thank you for the explanation. I did not know that about canned or possible homemade food.

I will try that as Piper's stool could be firmer

[PipersMom]

I lowered the enzymes and Piper's stool became very loose so we went back to the 1:1 ratio (1 cup food. 1 tsp enzymes, 3/4 cups of food, 3/4 tsp enzymes) it is a little better but should know more tomorrow.

We have been feeding homemade for a year now and before that it was Farmers Dog so I guess she is used to this amount of enzymes.

[PipersMom]

So it has been over a week that I am feeding three meals (2 meals and a snack which is all her food).

I can not get her stool firm. I tried lowering the enzymes per cup of homemade food and the stool got mushy. Back to the 1:1 ratio and was getting better.

Was putting pysullium and slippery elm with each bowl. But took our of the snack as maybe you much.

Thinking I might have to raise enzymes? I am at a loss. Not sure what to do now. Any suggestions?

[Tuckaboo Pam]

Does Piper's condition mean that she can't be treated for SID, or is one of her meds meant for that? Tuck's poops go a little south when he's starting to flare, and out comes the Tylan. Since he got sick & the vet wants him on Fresh Pet, beef recipe, his poops are firmer than ever. He's also taking a Chinese herb now, which might be contributing. But again, I'm playing catch-up here with Piper's story, so I may be way off base.
---Pam

[Eddiespaghetti]

Let me try to help. Looking at your signature. Assuming it's up to date. I need to ask why is both proin and Incurin is being given? That seems like a bit too much. Regardless, gabapentin and proin can both cause diarrhea. Maybe they are having a reaction to that?
Otherwise, maybe the SIDs is getting out of control and tylosin will help? You can also try giving more B12? Those are the only things I can think of.

[jilbert57]

Hey Jeremy, it is common to use Proin and Incurin simultaneously. In lieu of raising Kiyas Proin dose we used low dose of both and the leaking stopped.

Pipersmom: You could try raising the enzyme a tad but too much produces sloppy poops like too little enzyme.

Jill

[Eddiespaghetti]

I do apologize, I didn't know both were commonly giving. Most of my dogs have been male, so I have had very little experience with Incurin. (My vet told me Incurin is for female dogs)

[jilbert57]

No apology needed! Yes Incurin is for female dogs. Uses a short acting estrogen(estriol).
None of my males have ever suffered urine leakage.

Jill

[Olesia711]

Hi Shawn,

Since the poos are not optimal .....Go ahead and try increasing the enzymes by just a pinch .....maybe 1/8 of a teaspoon per meal since you are feeding 1+1/2 cups of food.... even though wet food........ do this for 2 or 3 days and see if you notice an improvement. If you notice improvement just not enough.... then try giving 1/4 tsp extra enzymes with each meal.

the above doesn't work........ THEN try adding back either the slippery elm or the psyllium..... these both are fibers.... and the right kind for dysbiosis (SID) you just don't want to overdo it.... so i would not give both together, i would just give one. Slippery Elm is less harsh.... i would try giving with every meal (and reduced amount with the snack) if the above added enzymes don't help as much as expected.............

The reason why i am suggesting this is because often times, when the diet is not optimal... you can compensate by giving a pinch more enzymes.

However... looking back at Piper's diet in the past, she was getting more fiber (the right kind) to help keep SID at bay in an EPI dog ..... once you removed everything, she appears to be getting great food, but may need that pinch of the right fiber to help keep SID in check.

Giving fiber to an EPI dog is a minefield. You often need to avoid grains, cause too much or the wrong kind of fiber can mess with the efficacy of the enzymes.
BUT.... the right kind of fiber is what helps keep SID in check and all dogs with EPI have SID. BUT then you have to be careful to not give too much of the right kind of fiber (w/SCFAs) as that in turn will prompt loose stools, and yet on the flip side not enough will also prompt loose stools... THis concept is enough to make anyone's head spin...............................

And this is why years ago (before all the pre and probiotics and/or slippery elm).....they recommended grain free food to an EPI dog and also recommended a tsp of canned pumpkin (for the right amount and right type) of fiber. kind of take away fiber but then add back the right kind/amount of fiber.

[PipersMom]

I am sorry for not replying earlier. For some reason notifications stopped working and I have not received them which made me come and look. (I unsubbed from thread ad resubbed, hopefully that works)

I am going to try to answer in order...

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I have Piper on Tylan now. She gets 1/8tsp twice a day. for the last week and still on.

Proin and Incurin are for her USMI. These are needed or she will leak all over. She had been doing fine on them with no poop problems. As Jill mentioned both can be used in low doses without issue.

Yes I tried to lower the enzymes and that did not work. I will try to up them as suggested (for 1.5 cups I give 1.5 tsp enzymes. I will add 1/8 tsp), can't get any worse.

the above doesn't work........ THEN try adding back either the slippery elm or the psyllium..... these both are fibers.... and the right kind for dysbiosis (SID) you just don't want to overdo it.... so i would not give both together, i would just give one. Slippery Elm is less harsh.... i would try giving with every meal (and reduced amount with the snack) if the above added enzymes don't help as much as expected.............

Wow I had no clue. The internist has had me giving her BOTH SE and Psyllium at the same time in the same meal - .5 tsp of each. I will stop Psyllium.


Piper diet per day is the following now:

340g 90% ground beef drained
35g 85% ground beef drained
240g Sweet Potatoes mashed
20g 1% cottage cheese

Plus all her supps and vitamins and minerals

ALSO we have been feeding 3x a day now instead of 2. AM 1-1/4c food, Noon 3/4 c food, PM, 1 cup food