Bad Breath

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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jilbert57
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Posts: 1650
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Bad Breath

Post by jilbert57 » 13 Sep 2022, 08:52

Kiya was on 12.5 mg of Proin for spay incontinence for 7 years split am/pm. Worked great until she had a couple vestibular attacks. After those she got some Canine dementia and was put on Anipryl for it and couldn't be on Anipryl and Selegiline together. So we weaned her off proin and on to Incurin which worked great. She did have vulva swelling so we lowered dose and days given and added back in low dose Proin. had to stop Anipryl. Her incontinence was causing more stress than dementia. The low dose combo reduced the swelling.

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 6 and Sadie is 8months.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

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PipersMom
Member
Posts: 117
Country: United States
State: New Jersey
Pet name: Piper
My name: Shawn

Re: Bad Breath

Post by PipersMom » 13 Sep 2022, 09:42

jilbert57 wrote: 13 Sep 2022, 08:52 Kiya was on 12.5 mg of Proin for spay incontinence for 7 years split am/pm. Worked great until she had a couple vestibular attacks. After those she got some Canine dementia and was put on Anipryl for it and couldn't be on Anipryl and Selegiline together. So we weaned her off proin and on to Incurin which worked great. She did have vulva swelling so we lowered dose and days given and added back in low dose Proin. had to stop Anipryl. Her incontinence was causing more stress than dementia. The low dose combo reduced the swelling.

Jill
Piper is on 75 mg total proin, just today lowered to 50mg split into two 25 mg doses,. Incurin is 1mg. May I ask did you dog lick a lot on Incurin?
Shawn, from NJ. Piper is ChowChow, German Shepherd, Catahoula Leopard Dog, Bluetick Coonhound, Border Collie, and Pit. Born 8/28/19.

EPI Diagnoised
: 4/7/21 (cTLI-1.8, B-12-<150, Folate->24). Started Enzymes 4/8/21. Piper's weight is a steady 50lbs. Lowest weight 42lbs. As of 4/5/21 B12 was 505.
Daily Meds: PancreVed Powder with each meal, B-12 1000mg every other day, Proin 25 mg BID, Gabapentin 150mg BID, Proviable-Forte Capsule, Priolosec 20mg and Incurin .5mg. If needed: Carprofen, Cerenia. NOTE: Trying Mercola Complete probiotics BID and stopped the other.
Current Food: Homemade food by me with a vet nutritionist recipe that has added vitamins and minerals.

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jilbert57
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Posts: 1650
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Bad Breath

Post by jilbert57 » 13 Sep 2022, 09:47

Yes she did being swollen bothered her. She was 42 lbs. We went to incurin every other day and the 6.25mg Proin twice daily. This pattern reduced the swelling.

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 6 and Sadie is 8months.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

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PipersMom
Member
Posts: 117
Country: United States
State: New Jersey
Pet name: Piper
My name: Shawn

Re: Bad Breath

Post by PipersMom » 13 Sep 2022, 10:09

I will let my vet know .. Thanks.
Shawn, from NJ. Piper is ChowChow, German Shepherd, Catahoula Leopard Dog, Bluetick Coonhound, Border Collie, and Pit. Born 8/28/19.

EPI Diagnoised
: 4/7/21 (cTLI-1.8, B-12-<150, Folate->24). Started Enzymes 4/8/21. Piper's weight is a steady 50lbs. Lowest weight 42lbs. As of 4/5/21 B12 was 505.
Daily Meds: PancreVed Powder with each meal, B-12 1000mg every other day, Proin 25 mg BID, Gabapentin 150mg BID, Proviable-Forte Capsule, Priolosec 20mg and Incurin .5mg. If needed: Carprofen, Cerenia. NOTE: Trying Mercola Complete probiotics BID and stopped the other.
Current Food: Homemade food by me with a vet nutritionist recipe that has added vitamins and minerals.

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PipersMom
Member
Posts: 117
Country: United States
State: New Jersey
Pet name: Piper
My name: Shawn

Re: Bad Breath

Post by PipersMom » 13 Sep 2022, 10:21

jilbert57 wrote: 13 Sep 2022, 09:47 Yes she did being swollen bothered her. She was 42 lbs. We went to incurin every other day and the 6.25mg Proin twice daily. This pattern reduced the swelling.

Jill

One more question, when your dog licked herself did her jowls ever look like they were quivering? And drooling more then usual? Piper does this. It only started with Incurin. Her vuvla has swelled some since starting. She did the 2 weeks on 2mg, Now in day 12 of 14 on 1mg.
Shawn, from NJ. Piper is ChowChow, German Shepherd, Catahoula Leopard Dog, Bluetick Coonhound, Border Collie, and Pit. Born 8/28/19.

EPI Diagnoised
: 4/7/21 (cTLI-1.8, B-12-<150, Folate->24). Started Enzymes 4/8/21. Piper's weight is a steady 50lbs. Lowest weight 42lbs. As of 4/5/21 B12 was 505.
Daily Meds: PancreVed Powder with each meal, B-12 1000mg every other day, Proin 25 mg BID, Gabapentin 150mg BID, Proviable-Forte Capsule, Priolosec 20mg and Incurin .5mg. If needed: Carprofen, Cerenia. NOTE: Trying Mercola Complete probiotics BID and stopped the other.
Current Food: Homemade food by me with a vet nutritionist recipe that has added vitamins and minerals.

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jilbert57
Staff
Posts: 1650
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Bad Breath

Post by jilbert57 » 13 Sep 2022, 10:27

No jaw quivering on her (aussie/heeler) but my jack russells do that after licking something nasty tasting(well I would consider it nasty tasting lol)

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 6 and Sadie is 8months.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

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PipersMom
Member
Posts: 117
Country: United States
State: New Jersey
Pet name: Piper
My name: Shawn

Re: Bad Breath

Post by PipersMom » 16 Sep 2022, 08:56

I will be batch cooking a weeks of food today. I am going to add a little more beef and a little less sweet potato and no oatmeal. Hopefully this will help. I want to bulk up a bit meaning not moosh so what do you suggest? Again her food is as follows (one days worth split into two meals)

6oz 93% ground beef cooked
1.5 cups mashed sweet potatoes
1 tsp hemp seed oil
1 scoop annemaet essentials
1 oz pumpkin puree
1 oz cooked steel oats

I will omit the oats and add 1 extra oz of food and .25 cup less of sweet potato.



Any other suggestions?
Shawn, from NJ. Piper is ChowChow, German Shepherd, Catahoula Leopard Dog, Bluetick Coonhound, Border Collie, and Pit. Born 8/28/19.

EPI Diagnoised
: 4/7/21 (cTLI-1.8, B-12-<150, Folate->24). Started Enzymes 4/8/21. Piper's weight is a steady 50lbs. Lowest weight 42lbs. As of 4/5/21 B12 was 505.
Daily Meds: PancreVed Powder with each meal, B-12 1000mg every other day, Proin 25 mg BID, Gabapentin 150mg BID, Proviable-Forte Capsule, Priolosec 20mg and Incurin .5mg. If needed: Carprofen, Cerenia. NOTE: Trying Mercola Complete probiotics BID and stopped the other.
Current Food: Homemade food by me with a vet nutritionist recipe that has added vitamins and minerals.

Tuckaboo Pam
Member
Posts: 1192
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: Bad Breath

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 18 Sep 2022, 19:04

Tucker's breath smells like a high school locker room. I've gotten used to it. I know his sid is flaring when he gets gassy. Have you tried probiotics? I had to give them to my son when he was a child, otherwise his breath was bad. Tuck takes proviable, but it doesn't change his breath. What works for one dog doesn't always work for another, so you might be lucky. --- Pam
Tucker is a shepherd/lab mix; he has tested positive on the ScheBo test for EPI, as well as the fasting TLI. Results--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Currently taking Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, two capsules slippery elm/evening, 1 Proviable capsule/day, and Tylan 1/32 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 4 cups/day, with a couple tablespoons of Fresh Pet mixed in, because everybody else gets some. No more poop eating, has gone from 60 to 95!!! pounds, and he is a happy member of the family, though a bit of a stinker, if you ask the other dogs. Tucker is my boyfriend, and my husband is OK with that.

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PipersMom
Member
Posts: 117
Country: United States
State: New Jersey
Pet name: Piper
My name: Shawn

Re: Bad Breath/Belly

Post by PipersMom » 21 Sep 2022, 06:43

Well I replaced rice for the oatmeal and her stool is still not good so... I have an email into the nutritionist. From his last email he really did not agree with the internist as far as her diet goes. I am not sure why YET but I will find out. I also asked him what he would change since the internist is no longer at the specialty hospital. Piper's regular vet agrees as well that maybe her diet is too sweet potato forward. I personally think she needs more beef but I am no doctor.

I also (posted in a separate thread) have sweet potatoes with enzymes in the dehydrator. This will make giving her treats easier as I know her belly will handle them.
Shawn, from NJ. Piper is ChowChow, German Shepherd, Catahoula Leopard Dog, Bluetick Coonhound, Border Collie, and Pit. Born 8/28/19.

EPI Diagnoised
: 4/7/21 (cTLI-1.8, B-12-<150, Folate->24). Started Enzymes 4/8/21. Piper's weight is a steady 50lbs. Lowest weight 42lbs. As of 4/5/21 B12 was 505.
Daily Meds: PancreVed Powder with each meal, B-12 1000mg every other day, Proin 25 mg BID, Gabapentin 150mg BID, Proviable-Forte Capsule, Priolosec 20mg and Incurin .5mg. If needed: Carprofen, Cerenia. NOTE: Trying Mercola Complete probiotics BID and stopped the other.
Current Food: Homemade food by me with a vet nutritionist recipe that has added vitamins and minerals.

User avatar
PipersMom
Member
Posts: 117
Country: United States
State: New Jersey
Pet name: Piper
My name: Shawn

Re: Bad Breath

Post by PipersMom » 21 Sep 2022, 11:38

Update...

So Pipers stool is still not where it was when on the Farmers Dog Diet. I spoke to the nutritionist again and are making new adjustments.

New recipe:

Daily Diet to consist of (approx. 850 kcals):

12 oz 90% pan cooked ground beef OR 12 oz. roasted pork chop (all weights are after cooking) WAS 6oz
1/2 cups of freshly cooked or canned mashed sweet potato WAS 1 1/2 cups
1 teaspoon of hempseed oil no change
1 (30 grams) ounce of canned pumpkin no change
½ ounce (15 grams) of dry oatmeal (reconstituted with small amount of water) no change but I will use 1/2 cup brown rice instead

ADDED SUPPLEMENTS:
1 ¼ scoops (5 grams) of Annamaet Enhance WAS 1 scoop or 4 grams


The doctor also stated he betting the protein and fat are not issues and you will see an improvement with the higher beef or pork.


Keeping fingers crossed because only since on this new diet has she had stool problems. Plus we were not happy with the sweet potato forward diet. Way too much I think.


Oh no more bad breath, I think she has something going on. I am wondering if I should start tylan with her soft stools.. suggestions?
Shawn, from NJ. Piper is ChowChow, German Shepherd, Catahoula Leopard Dog, Bluetick Coonhound, Border Collie, and Pit. Born 8/28/19.

EPI Diagnoised
: 4/7/21 (cTLI-1.8, B-12-<150, Folate->24). Started Enzymes 4/8/21. Piper's weight is a steady 50lbs. Lowest weight 42lbs. As of 4/5/21 B12 was 505.
Daily Meds: PancreVed Powder with each meal, B-12 1000mg every other day, Proin 25 mg BID, Gabapentin 150mg BID, Proviable-Forte Capsule, Priolosec 20mg and Incurin .5mg. If needed: Carprofen, Cerenia. NOTE: Trying Mercola Complete probiotics BID and stopped the other.
Current Food: Homemade food by me with a vet nutritionist recipe that has added vitamins and minerals.

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