Bad Breath

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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PipersMom
Member
Posts: 165
Country: United States
State: New Jersey
Pet name: Piper
My name: Shawn

Re: Bad Breath

Post by PipersMom » 28 Feb 2023, 18:24

Pipers stool is still very soft on the verge of having diarrhea. Three psyllium powder helps make or a tad rubbery as not to get diarrhea.


I have cut her rice in half. I was using brown rice and wonder if I should try white instead. While brown is more nutritional while I hear helps more.

No matter what we do we can not get her stool good again since that one doctor had me home cook . Grrr
Shawn, from NJ. Piper is Chow Chow, German Shepherd, Catahoula Leopard Dog, Bluetick Coonhound, Boxer, Border Collie, and Pit. Born 8/28/19.

EPI Diagnoised
: 4/7/21 (cTLI-1.8, B-12-<150, Folate->24). Started Enzymes 4/8/21. Piper's weight dropped to 45 but was a is a steady 52lbs. Lowest weight 42lbs. As of 4/5/21 B12 was 505. As of 12/14/22 was 830
Daily Meds: PancreVed Powder with each meal, Pet Factor B-12 W/ Intrinsic Factor, Proin 25 mg BID, Gabapentin 150mg BID, Proviable-Forte Capsule, FortiFlora Probiotic and Incurin .5mg. If needed: carprofeb, Cerenia, Tylan
Current Food: Homemade food by me with a vet nutritionist recipe that has added vitamins and minerals.

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jilbert57
Staff
Posts: 2215
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Bad Breath

Post by jilbert57 » 01 Mar 2023, 09:14

Hi Shawn, I know both Gabapentin and carprofen (I see only uses when needed)can cause GI upset. Is the Gabapentin for arthritis?If so maybe try Gallaprant.
If all else fails and SID is under control, B12 is high I would try no grain. Can't remember if you have tried grain free totally.
Are you enzyming all treats given also?
Maybe the Proviable Forte is the culprit?

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

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Michaela
Member
Posts: 154
Country: United States
State: Texas
Pet name: Nikki
My name: Michaela

Re: Bad Breath

Post by Michaela » 11 Apr 2023, 08:18

Hi Shawn,

how is Piper doing? I just recently switched Nikki back to home cooked and she is doing great. I decided to go with white rice (Basmati) and extra lean ground beef. I had planned on balancing her diet through BalanceIt but that didn't work out. They wanted me to add 7 tablespoons of oil :o , I just can't see that happening.

For many, many years I have used Monica Segal but she is stepping back from consulting and Jody Zesko is taking over. So, I contacted Jody and she is now working on Nikki's diet, so far she is wonderful to work with. Just wanted to let you know in case you still needed help with Piper's diet. Here is her info: https://www.spotoncaninenutrition.com/

R.I.P. Nikki 11/21/2009 - 05/23/2023

Nikki was diagnosed with EPI in 2010
Royal Canin Gastrointestinal Low Fat canned
Slippery Elm syrup for stomach issues
1 tsp Pan-Tenex enzymes with each meal
Weekly B12 shots, pills didn't work for her
Tylan for life


"If there ever comes a day when we can't be together, keep me in your heart, I'll stay there forever."

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Jean
Forum Director
Posts: 1707
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: Bad Breath

Post by Jean » 11 Apr 2023, 08:42

try activated charcoal
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

User avatar
PipersMom
Member
Posts: 165
Country: United States
State: New Jersey
Pet name: Piper
My name: Shawn

Re: Bad Breath

Post by PipersMom » 14 May 2023, 12:58

jilbert57 wrote: 01 Mar 2023, 09:14 Hi Shawn, I know both Gabapentin and carprofen (I see only uses when needed)can cause GI upset. Is the Gabapentin for arthritis?If so maybe try Gallaprant.
If all else fails and SID is under control, B12 is high I would try no grain. Can't remember if you have tried grain free totally.
Are you enzyming all treats given also?
Maybe the Proviable Forte is the culprit?

Jill

Sorry for the late reply things have been hectic here...

Gabapentin. Piper has been on this for a while now because she has a nerve issue at the base of her spine and needs it. We tried to ween her off but it aggravates the nerve so need to leave her on it. I happen to know a lot about that as I have perm nerve damage and am also on that as well As far as the carprofen. She does not take (and has not) in a while unless really needed.

Last BW here B12 was high so we cut her B12 to 1/2 a pill every other day which is 500mg every other day now. She will be retested in July. I had a friend make a months of food for me as I had back issues and she did not cut the rice down so when I do a bath cooking this Friday I will be doing so.

`````````````````````````~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Let me give you an update .....

I took Piper to the vet this past week. She needed her anal sacs expressed. Anyway she lost 4 pounds. She is eating great., her treats are at a minimum and no, no enzymes. However she gets a tiny Wet Nose training Star after she goes potty or as a treat and again not many at all.

I did try changing from Proviable to Dr. Mercola however her stool never got better so went back to proviable as she has been on that forever and to be honest she was doing great until she was put on a homemade diet. That messed her all up. The Reason they changed it was because she was having verps and belly grumbling. She was on Farmers Dog Beef and had the best stool, no SIBO and weight was great.

Anyway, she did have more grumbling of belly and very soft stool but my husband was giving her a lot of treats and had some sibo. Once I told him to stop the grumbling went away... stool was still soft. She was put on tylan and is still on it. Stool is getting a little better but has never become firm like it was before on a homemade diet. This is what I feed her a day and cut into two meals:

12oz 90% ground beef pan cooked, 3/4 cup mashed sweep potatoes, 3/4 cup white rice (will cut it to 1/2 c) 1oz pumpkin puree, 1 tsp canola oil, 1 tsp Nordic Naturals Pet Omega 3 Oil and 5grams Aneamat Enhance - added to each meal is 1/2 tsp slippery elm, 1/2 tsp psyillum powder and 1 tsp PanacreVed Enzymes.



I am getting concerned only because she lost some weight but eats great, acts fine and thankfully no diarrhea. If I do not give her the psyillum powder in her meal the stool is really soft and I do not want to find out if it would be on the verge of mush hence the nutritionist putting her on it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

With that all said... I am up to try anything. If we do remove the rice completely, what would I replace it with? Piper get a total of 20-21 ounce of food a day and I do not want to lower that as I need to put weight on her.


Again sorry for the late reply I was dealing with back issues myself
Shawn, from NJ. Piper is Chow Chow, German Shepherd, Catahoula Leopard Dog, Bluetick Coonhound, Boxer, Border Collie, and Pit. Born 8/28/19.

EPI Diagnoised
: 4/7/21 (cTLI-1.8, B-12-<150, Folate->24). Started Enzymes 4/8/21. Piper's weight dropped to 45 but was a is a steady 52lbs. Lowest weight 42lbs. As of 4/5/21 B12 was 505. As of 12/14/22 was 830
Daily Meds: PancreVed Powder with each meal, Pet Factor B-12 W/ Intrinsic Factor, Proin 25 mg BID, Gabapentin 150mg BID, Proviable-Forte Capsule, FortiFlora Probiotic and Incurin .5mg. If needed: carprofeb, Cerenia, Tylan
Current Food: Homemade food by me with a vet nutritionist recipe that has added vitamins and minerals.

User avatar
PipersMom
Member
Posts: 165
Country: United States
State: New Jersey
Pet name: Piper
My name: Shawn

Re: Bad Breath

Post by PipersMom » 14 May 2023, 13:01

Michaela wrote: 11 Apr 2023, 08:18 Hi Shawn,

how is Piper doing? I just recently switched Nikki back to home cooked and she is doing great. I decided to go with white rice (Basmati) and extra lean ground beef. I had planned on balancing her diet through BalanceIt but that didn't work out. They wanted me to add 7 tablespoons of oil :o , I just can't see that happening.

For many, many years I have used Monica Segal but she is stepping back from consulting and Jody Zesko is taking over. So, I contacted Jody and she is now working on Nikki's diet, so far she is wonderful to work with. Just wanted to let you know in case you still needed help with Piper's diet. Here is her info: https://www.spotoncaninenutrition.com/
Thank you! I will reach out to her and see what she says!
Shawn, from NJ. Piper is Chow Chow, German Shepherd, Catahoula Leopard Dog, Bluetick Coonhound, Boxer, Border Collie, and Pit. Born 8/28/19.

EPI Diagnoised
: 4/7/21 (cTLI-1.8, B-12-<150, Folate->24). Started Enzymes 4/8/21. Piper's weight dropped to 45 but was a is a steady 52lbs. Lowest weight 42lbs. As of 4/5/21 B12 was 505. As of 12/14/22 was 830
Daily Meds: PancreVed Powder with each meal, Pet Factor B-12 W/ Intrinsic Factor, Proin 25 mg BID, Gabapentin 150mg BID, Proviable-Forte Capsule, FortiFlora Probiotic and Incurin .5mg. If needed: carprofeb, Cerenia, Tylan
Current Food: Homemade food by me with a vet nutritionist recipe that has added vitamins and minerals.

User avatar
Jean
Forum Director
Posts: 1707
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: Bad Breath

Post by Jean » 15 May 2023, 04:42

deactivated charcoal is aid to help
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

User avatar
PipersMom
Member
Posts: 165
Country: United States
State: New Jersey
Pet name: Piper
My name: Shawn

Re: Bad Breath

Post by PipersMom » 15 May 2023, 05:05

Jean wrote: 15 May 2023, 04:42 deactivated charcoal is aid to help


I will look into this. Is there any particular brand or item I should look for? Also She is 45 pounds how much would I give and how? Sorry for the questions never heard of using this before
Shawn, from NJ. Piper is Chow Chow, German Shepherd, Catahoula Leopard Dog, Bluetick Coonhound, Boxer, Border Collie, and Pit. Born 8/28/19.

EPI Diagnoised
: 4/7/21 (cTLI-1.8, B-12-<150, Folate->24). Started Enzymes 4/8/21. Piper's weight dropped to 45 but was a is a steady 52lbs. Lowest weight 42lbs. As of 4/5/21 B12 was 505. As of 12/14/22 was 830
Daily Meds: PancreVed Powder with each meal, Pet Factor B-12 W/ Intrinsic Factor, Proin 25 mg BID, Gabapentin 150mg BID, Proviable-Forte Capsule, FortiFlora Probiotic and Incurin .5mg. If needed: carprofeb, Cerenia, Tylan
Current Food: Homemade food by me with a vet nutritionist recipe that has added vitamins and minerals.

User avatar
Jean
Forum Director
Posts: 1707
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: Bad Breath

Post by Jean » 15 May 2023, 05:11

I am in the Uk so different brands

have a look on Amazon

however ask your vet just incase there are reasons you cannot use it
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

User avatar
jilbert57
Staff
Posts: 2215
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Bad Breath

Post by jilbert57 » 15 May 2023, 09:08

I used activated charcoal capsules when Mickey drank some hydraulic fluid while we were out on the boat!

https://www.kingsdale.com/activated-charcoal-for-dogs-when-to-use-it

I got capsules over the counter at a pharmacy.

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

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