Bad Breath

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
User avatar
Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 4105
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Bad Breath

Post by Olesia711 » 27 May 2023, 15:59

so glad to hear that Piper is doing much better now.....with the increased enzymes and no more rice. The "verps" might take a bit longer to straighten out.

ONce the poos are "nice" for an extended period of time.....maybe 3 weeks.... and since you are not feeding the rice anymore... if the verps have continued.... try reducing the enzymes by a tiny pinch (maybe 1/16 tsp) and see if that reduces the verps without softening the stools.... if this doesn't work... then talk to the vet about possibly adding Omeprazole to her regimen.
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

User avatar
PipersMom
Member
Posts: 165
Country: United States
State: New Jersey
Pet name: Piper
My name: Shawn

Re: Bad Breath

Post by PipersMom » 26 Jul 2023, 06:22

I am sorry for not checking in sooner. Things are pretty nutty here but finally settling down.


Anyway I wanted to report that Piper is doing much better. Her belly issues, grumbling, verps and gas are gone. Thank you to Michaela for recommending Jody at Spot On.

We cut everything out of Pipers diet except for Sweet Potato and Ground Beef plus all the supplements and vitamins. We have another two weeks together and then maybe we can incorporate something else but for now she is good.

Still trying to put on a few pounds. Stool not 100% but so much better too,
Shawn, from NJ. Piper is Chow Chow, German Shepherd, Catahoula Leopard Dog, Bluetick Coonhound, Boxer, Border Collie, and Pit. Born 8/28/19.

EPI Diagnoised
: 4/7/21 (cTLI-1.8, B-12-<150, Folate->24). Started Enzymes 4/8/21. Piper's weight dropped to 45 but was a is a steady 52lbs. Lowest weight 42lbs. As of 4/5/21 B12 was 505. As of 12/14/22 was 830
Daily Meds: PancreVed Powder with each meal, Pet Factor B-12 W/ Intrinsic Factor, Proin 25 mg BID, Gabapentin 150mg BID, Proviable-Forte Capsule, FortiFlora Probiotic and Incurin .5mg. If needed: carprofeb, Cerenia, Tylan
Current Food: Homemade food by me with a vet nutritionist recipe that has added vitamins and minerals.

User avatar
Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 4105
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Bad Breath

Post by Olesia711 » 26 Jul 2023, 10:43

thanks for the update... SOOOoo glad to hear that Piper is doing better .... WAHOO!!!

And i too would like to thank Michaela for helping out :)
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

User avatar
PipersMom
Member
Posts: 165
Country: United States
State: New Jersey
Pet name: Piper
My name: Shawn

Re: Bad Breath

Post by PipersMom » 22 Aug 2023, 14:34

I am continuing to work with Jody and she wants to add a snack in for Piper. However we are unsure on how to give the enzymes

I know it is measured 1tsp per cup of food. SO if I feed 1-1/2 cups I find 1-3/8tsp work.

however for a snack they are wondering if the enzyme dose be converted to grams of food vs volume
Shawn, from NJ. Piper is Chow Chow, German Shepherd, Catahoula Leopard Dog, Bluetick Coonhound, Boxer, Border Collie, and Pit. Born 8/28/19.

EPI Diagnoised
: 4/7/21 (cTLI-1.8, B-12-<150, Folate->24). Started Enzymes 4/8/21. Piper's weight dropped to 45 but was a is a steady 52lbs. Lowest weight 42lbs. As of 4/5/21 B12 was 505. As of 12/14/22 was 830
Daily Meds: PancreVed Powder with each meal, Pet Factor B-12 W/ Intrinsic Factor, Proin 25 mg BID, Gabapentin 150mg BID, Proviable-Forte Capsule, FortiFlora Probiotic and Incurin .5mg. If needed: carprofeb, Cerenia, Tylan
Current Food: Homemade food by me with a vet nutritionist recipe that has added vitamins and minerals.

Eddiespaghetti
Member
Posts: 348
Country: United States
State: California
Pet name: Eddie
My name: Jeremy

Re: Bad Breath

Post by Eddiespaghetti » 22 Aug 2023, 17:53

Using napkin math. It's basically a 15:1 ratio of food to enzyme by weight in grams. A cup of my dogs kibble is about 60 grams and a teaspoon is approximately 4 grams. Of course the weight might be different depending on what is actually in the food.
That being said, it actually comes down to the amount of fat, protein, and carbs. The more the snack has the more enzymes you will need. The 1 teaspoon per cup is a starting recommendation and can be increased or decreased depending on the need.

User avatar
PipersMom
Member
Posts: 165
Country: United States
State: New Jersey
Pet name: Piper
My name: Shawn

Re: Bad Breath

Post by PipersMom » 24 Aug 2023, 08:57

Thank you!
Shawn, from NJ. Piper is Chow Chow, German Shepherd, Catahoula Leopard Dog, Bluetick Coonhound, Boxer, Border Collie, and Pit. Born 8/28/19.

EPI Diagnoised
: 4/7/21 (cTLI-1.8, B-12-<150, Folate->24). Started Enzymes 4/8/21. Piper's weight dropped to 45 but was a is a steady 52lbs. Lowest weight 42lbs. As of 4/5/21 B12 was 505. As of 12/14/22 was 830
Daily Meds: PancreVed Powder with each meal, Pet Factor B-12 W/ Intrinsic Factor, Proin 25 mg BID, Gabapentin 150mg BID, Proviable-Forte Capsule, FortiFlora Probiotic and Incurin .5mg. If needed: carprofeb, Cerenia, Tylan
Current Food: Homemade food by me with a vet nutritionist recipe that has added vitamins and minerals.

User avatar
Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 4105
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Bad Breath

Post by Olesia711 » 26 Aug 2023, 12:57

thanks Jeremy.... that was way more detailed than what i normally suggest, but also spot on :)
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

User avatar
PipersMom
Member
Posts: 165
Country: United States
State: New Jersey
Pet name: Piper
My name: Shawn

Re: Bad Breath

Post by PipersMom » 27 Aug 2023, 10:50

I tried my best to understand but I am so bad at this LOL


Anyway, this is what I came up with. Please anyone tell me if I am right or wrong and if I need to adjust and then to what. I so appreciate it. ❤️

So this is what I have done, let me apologize for the long post in advance.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

we are now feeding three times a day. Two meals and a snack. (Breakfast, Snack and Dinner in this order)

For a full days worth of food it is 25.5oz or 696 grams. I take that and divide by 4. This gives me the snack portion (174 grams). I then take the remainder and divide by 2 giving me 261 grams for breakfast and lunch.

For Breakfast and Dinner (I never weighed it again after adding a little water slippery elm and psyllium) it is 1-1/4 cups of food. Snack comes to 3/4 cup.

Enzymes: Is this correct, for Breakfast and Dinner 1-1/4 cups of food should get 1-1/4 tsp of enzymes. Snack, 3/4 cup of food gets 3/4 tsp of enzymes?



Again sorry for asking so many questions, we just want to make sure we keep Piper on the right track and not lose stride in what we have accomplished


Thanks again,
Shawn
Shawn, from NJ. Piper is Chow Chow, German Shepherd, Catahoula Leopard Dog, Bluetick Coonhound, Boxer, Border Collie, and Pit. Born 8/28/19.

EPI Diagnoised
: 4/7/21 (cTLI-1.8, B-12-<150, Folate->24). Started Enzymes 4/8/21. Piper's weight dropped to 45 but was a is a steady 52lbs. Lowest weight 42lbs. As of 4/5/21 B12 was 505. As of 12/14/22 was 830
Daily Meds: PancreVed Powder with each meal, Pet Factor B-12 W/ Intrinsic Factor, Proin 25 mg BID, Gabapentin 150mg BID, Proviable-Forte Capsule, FortiFlora Probiotic and Incurin .5mg. If needed: carprofeb, Cerenia, Tylan
Current Food: Homemade food by me with a vet nutritionist recipe that has added vitamins and minerals.

Eddiespaghetti
Member
Posts: 348
Country: United States
State: California
Pet name: Eddie
My name: Jeremy

Re: Bad Breath

Post by Eddiespaghetti » 27 Aug 2023, 11:24

That is pretty close to the recommended amount. The 1 teaspoon per cup is based on kibble amount, since it is usually higher in fat.
Based of your weight, I am assuming you are giving a more of a mush than kibble.
You can probably, possibly, cut the enzymes back by 1/4th and see if it works. I, personally, would stick to the amounts of 1 1/4th and 1 and see if it works then cut back.
I know I am giving conflicting answers, but this EPI is anything but ordinary.
I don't mind a lot of questions. Keep asking. I am relatively new to this, but I have spent weeks absorbing information on it. If I am wrong about anything, there is always someone smarter than me around.

User avatar
jilbert57
Staff
Posts: 2187
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Bad Breath

Post by jilbert57 » 27 Aug 2023, 11:52

I would say that that is a good starting point. 1 level teaspoon enzyme per 1 level cup kibble. Start there.

If something is amiss with the poop, try lowering the ratio to 3/4 teaspoon enzyme per 1 cup canned food. I say this because if you were feeding a canned food instead of dry kibble that is the starting point.

As you are feeding homemade food it might be akin to canned food.

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: smartblonde612 and 2 guests