Diabetic for over a year now has EPI (and more)

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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KarenC
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Re: Diabetic for over a year now has EPI (and more)

Post by KarenC » 22 Oct 2022, 14:53

Oh so you also dealt with the low thyroid!

Luke's hasn't been very low but our vet thought maybe with the pneumonia it might be affecting things. So we decided to wait until his next x-ray/bloodwork in November to see where it's at. If it's still low then I guess more meds......if not then it was/is because of all the other things. Our vet explained what you are describing too but more because of the pneumonia so my take was that the low thryoid is because of what is going on his body right now. So, very similar to what you were explaining. And hopefully no extra meds needed.
Luke, Basenji/Shepard/Spaniel/Collie mix. DX-Diabetes 5/2021, DX-EPI & Cushings 9/2022, DX-Hypothyroid 10/22

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Olesia711
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Re: Diabetic for over a year now has EPI (and more)

Post by Olesia711 » 22 Oct 2022, 15:51

it's pretty crazy, eh?!!! I swear, by the time we research all the things that go wrong with some of our poor pups... we probably are halfway to a vet tech certification!
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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KarenC
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Re: Diabetic for over a year now has EPI (and more)

Post by KarenC » 09 Nov 2022, 12:00

Just a little update and a question.

So I think his pneumonia is definitely clearing/cleared up. Almost no more coughing so yay for that but his Doc will want a chest xray, I think. He goes for his annual in 10 days and there is a lot to discuss!

But, I am pretty sure he is sneaky poop eating again. He has been waking up at night wanting to go out. It's super dark so I can't see him unless I follow him with a flashlight but sometimes I am barely awake when I let him out, hehe. Anyway, yesterday I saw him snatch a poop before I could pick it up and this is something that he has not done much over the past few months. And I suspect he may be doing it in the middle of the night.

I am wondering if I need to increase his enzymes? He is looking fuller as in I think he's gained a lb or 2 which will put him over the weight he should be so not sure what change, if any, should be made. Maybe this doesn't mean anything really. Everything still looks normal so no other changes really since his DX for the EPI and Cushing's except the increase of insulin.

I just feel unsure as to whether he is getting enough enzymes. Currently at 3/4 tsp Pancreved per meal.
Luke, Basenji/Shepard/Spaniel/Collie mix. DX-Diabetes 5/2021, DX-EPI & Cushings 9/2022, DX-Hypothyroid 10/22

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jilbert57
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Re: Diabetic for over a year now has EPI (and more)

Post by jilbert57 » 09 Nov 2022, 12:15

I am wondering if he had a Vestibular incident? Low thyroid can be a factor in this as well as other things. Did you notice any side to side eye movement or dizziness and or balance issues?
As for poop eating are you seeing undigested food in the poop?

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 6 and Sadie is 8months.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

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Olesia711
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Re: Diabetic for over a year now has EPI (and more)

Post by Olesia711 » 09 Nov 2022, 13:47

it won't hurt to "try" increasing the enzymes by just a pinch.....but then just watch if you see an improvement or not with his new poo eating habit.

The other thing you can do, of course, this is if you are awake enough in the middle of the night to slip this on........ hahahaha! Is get one of the light-weight basket muzzles... and only put it on him when he goes outside (when not on a leash) and this will prevent him from munching on inappropriate stuff............and just take it off as soon as he comes back in.

Image

I used one of these on my dogs... they got used to it real quick, especially since i took it off immediately when they came back inside......... worked like a charm!



I
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Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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KarenC
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Re: Diabetic for over a year now has EPI (and more)

Post by KarenC » 11 Nov 2022, 06:28

jilbert57 wrote: 09 Nov 2022, 12:15 I am wondering if he had a Vestibular incident? Low thyroid can be a factor in this as well as other things. Did you notice any side to side eye movement or dizziness and or balance issues?
As for poop eating are you seeing undigested food in the poop?

Jill
Hmm, you mean in reference to the weird incident in the middle of the night I posted about that I wasn't sure if it was a seizure or not? I wasn't sure what a vestibular event was but I looked it up. And I really am not sure. It was dark so I didn't see anything really except the sudden jumping off the bed and then falling over like a cow. But it is possible. So far nothing like it since.

I wondered if his blood sugar was too low at the time as well. But I can keep an eye out for this now that I know about it, thank you :D
Luke, Basenji/Shepard/Spaniel/Collie mix. DX-Diabetes 5/2021, DX-EPI & Cushings 9/2022, DX-Hypothyroid 10/22

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KarenC
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Re: Diabetic for over a year now has EPI (and more)

Post by KarenC » 11 Nov 2022, 06:34

Olesia711 wrote: 09 Nov 2022, 13:47 it won't hurt to "try" increasing the enzymes by just a pinch.....but then just watch if you see an improvement or not with his new poo eating habit.

The other thing you can do, of course, this is if you are awake enough in the middle of the night to slip this on........ hahahaha! Is get one of the light-weight basket muzzles... and only put it on him when he goes outside (when not on a leash) and this will prevent him from munching on inappropriate stuff............and just take it off as soon as he comes back in.

Image

I used one of these on my dogs... they got used to it real quick, especially since i took it off immediately when they came back inside......... worked like a charm!
I
This is a great idea and it's one of those things you wonder how you never thought of it. Probably always good to have one handy anyway, just in case. I am on serious poop watch patrol. He was getting good at just listening to 'leave it' so I could walk over to pick it up but the other day he was giving me that hard side eye when he snatched it. I know this side eye of his, he does it when he kinda guards something, usually something he wants to eat.

Oh, I forgot to answer Jill about the undigested food in the poop and no, it doesn't seem to have any undigested food.
Luke, Basenji/Shepard/Spaniel/Collie mix. DX-Diabetes 5/2021, DX-EPI & Cushings 9/2022, DX-Hypothyroid 10/22

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Olesia711
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Re: Diabetic for over a year now has EPI (and more)

Post by Olesia711 » 11 Nov 2022, 11:19

Hi Karen,

SO... he gives you the stink eye when he doesn't want you to take away something. made me chuckle..... as i know that look !

Yeah... the muzzle can be used as a great preventative tool.... and just give a tiny bite of a treat (if you can...) when you immediately put it on and take it off to make a "happy" game of it..........

Regarding Vestibular disease.....there are different kinds of vestibular disease..... the two major ones are (1) inner ear (2) central brain .
Inner ear is temporary and if you see the eyes moving horizontally back and forth or round and round.... it's inner ear. Oddly enough, this happens more often during bad storms, often happens in older dogs.
Central brain is permanent and if you see the eyes moving vertically up and down....it's central brain inflammation.... bring the dog to the vet ASAP.. often a toxin of some sort triggered it.......

My Izzy developed central brain inflammation.... she was in the hospital for 4 days on IVs. etc., she had trouble walking (hugged the walls) and couldn't catch a ball or frisbee for a long while... until she learned how to compensate for her new found deficiency....it was hard for me to watch this vibrant little dog have trouble functioning... but she was such a trooper and never gave up no matter what tried to strike her down... it took a few months but she overcame dealing with central brain vestibular disease ............ with the help of some great vets that put her on powerful drugs to reduce the inflammation..........
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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KarenC
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Re: Diabetic for over a year now has EPI (and more)

Post by KarenC » 12 Nov 2022, 17:23

Gosh, it is pretty hard to comprehend why some dogs get dealt all these things. Hurts the heart!

I am glad I am aware of this now, though. So far no strange eye movements of any kind so I feel like that isn't what happened but it is something to keep in the back of my mind and watch for.

We know he is losing his sight and I think one of the hardest things for me is knowing he can't see my hand gestures or facial expressions anymore. That saddens me a lot. He knows so many words but he also knew gestures and certain sounds and I am quite certain of expressions. I forgot most times that he can't see all these things that used to be normal for us, between us. Makes me tear up just thinking about it.
Luke, Basenji/Shepard/Spaniel/Collie mix. DX-Diabetes 5/2021, DX-EPI & Cushings 9/2022, DX-Hypothyroid 10/22

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Olesia711
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Location: North Carolina
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My name: olesia

Re: Diabetic for over a year now has EPI (and more)

Post by Olesia711 » 12 Nov 2022, 20:03

Ahh Karen, i hear ya..........the last few years of Izzy's life she went all blind in one eye and about 80% blind in the other eye....it broke my heart when she would be "hesitant" when walking in unfamiliar areas.... this was my fearless little dog who tackled everything with heart and chutzpa! So whenever she displayed uncertainty.. i used to tug on her little lead and reassure her with the word "Izzy, I got you!"... in time, she actually got confidence from these same words and would proceed as if she could see.

We learned not to change placements of things in the house.... and we played games with her in contained areas that she was familiar with ... this helped with her confidence even though she couldn't see much. But when we took her for walks outside the home... i had to use the reassuring words......

I know it's hard... and my heart hurts for you!
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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