I really need help😔

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
Farshid
Member
Posts: 11
Country: Iran
Pet name: Hana
My name: Farshid

I really need help😔

Post by Farshid » 03 Nov 2022, 08:16

Hi every one
First of all i want to Apologize for my broken weak english🙏
I am farshid from iran
My german shepherd dog in hana and she is about 2 years old
When she was at 9 month we understand she has epi due to her symptoms and labs
Since that time i use all of the guides in this site but my dogs cant gain weight
She is only 35 pounds(half of her real weight)
Some times one pound up or down but she cant gain weight and has loose stool and very poor coat
She is also very energetic but cant gain
And i tried every thing in this site (chnging things or add some )but still problem is here😭
Here is What I am doing now:
Enzyme: one scoop per meal from pntenex(before this i used biocase plus and not any change)

Diet:4 or 5 meals in a day
All meals are same:160 gerams of raw calf meat with a little of pumpkin
(I tried boiled chiken, turkey, royal canin hypo allergenic even fish but still not any change)

B12: one shot sq every week

Tylosin:since the disease was confirmed i use tylosin(its about one year) due to this site dosage
Sometime oxytet or metronidazole but still loose stool persist

During this time i use some supplemets for her like mct oil, coconut oil, fish oil, calcium, vitamines

But
Despite all of these
Still she cant gain weight

I beg of you pls help us😢🙏

Farshid
Member
Posts: 11
Country: Iran
Pet name: Hana
My name: Farshid

Re: I really need help😔

Post by Farshid » 03 Nov 2022, 08:22

And i use famotidine for her before meal 1 and 5
And i used some course of prednisolone and budesonide for her and still they didnt work

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Jean
Forum Director
Posts: 1629
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: I really need help😔

Post by Jean » 03 Nov 2022, 09:59

Good Afternoon from the UK

Your English is fine

the famitadine you use, is that for acid reflux ?

are you using enzymes for EVERYTHING that goes into her mouth except medication and water

how much Tylan are you giving, for her weight this is the doseage chart

https://epi4dogs.com/antibiotics/

and it should be given twice daily, morning feed and evening feed

You may not be giving enough calories

this is the analysis of Pan Tenex

https://www.pantenexdogenzymes.com/product-description

it doesnt specify the amount of food per dose of enzyme

other enzymes state 1 teaspoon per cup of kibble (which is 8 ounces of food)

160 grams is about 6 ounces ish which I personally dont think is sufficient, are you able to get commercial dog kibble over there ?

5 meals is fine but again I am not sure the amount of enzymes is enough

Can I say that My Kara was 39 pounds at her lowest weight at 14 months old and a GSD so I have been in your shoes, and I feel for you

keep a diary on everything you do

and have a look at our new templates

https://epi4dogs.com/epi-log/?fbclid=Iw ... T-ed7hxG84

we gave her 5 meals a day for several months she recovered but slowly
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

Sorela
Member
Posts: 30
Country: Romania
Pet name: The little Countesses
My name: Sorela

Re: I really need help😔

Post by Sorela » 03 Nov 2022, 11:39

Hi Farshid,
may I ask ... you said you use tylosin, what is the content(the strength), for the tartrate powder , per 100 gr of this Tylosin that you use?and from what brand is this Tylosin?

For my dogs, I had to adapt the wright dose of the tylosin tartrate strenght , because in my country - Romania ,I could only find a Tylosin that has 58% tartrate powder for every 100 gr of powder.

Sorela
BECKY, SHEEVA+BLACKY 13 years each, ideal weight 15kg, 13 kg, 18 kg(each girl have lost around 1.3 kg), since june 2022 chronic pancreatitis ; since 5.10.2022 CPL over 1000, hyperlipidemia, malabsorption, SID. TLI not tested yet, waiting the CPL to be stable.1 poop/day/dog, with form, orange and soft

Present: 5 low fat small meals / day/dog ;all are taking: 1cps lypex/120 gr food/dog + 1/4 tsp slipp elm/dog: 2 x/day + B12 chemeyes+selenium+ zinc+ E: 1x/day/dog+ 1/4 tsp/dog beef tripe powder: 1x/day+1/8 tilozina(Tylan) 2x/day
Ideal Poops. Weight gain 450 gr/girl
Hills low fat+Homemade: rice+ chicken breast+quail egg+Cheese 0,5% fat +sweet potatoes+boiled carrot.
We fight to decrease CPL

Farshid
Member
Posts: 11
Country: Iran
Pet name: Hana
My name: Farshid

Re: I really need help😔

Post by Farshid » 03 Nov 2022, 12:35

Hi jean
I appreciate for your time
Famotidine because she had morning vomiting(just her gastric acid before feeding)
And due to this site advice i used famotidine that fix the problem
I use enzyme for every meal exactly one scoop for about 160 gr raw food (as i said increased and decrease and change the brand and no Improvement)
I gave her tylosin two times with meal 1 and 5 in right dosage and my tylosin powder in 100 percent tylosin
And about callories i dont know how much these food have but i give her about 800 gerams of mmeat in day and i think thats may be enough
About commercial food as i said i use royal canin hypo allergenic for 4 weeks and no improvment

Its about 3 months i am writing every thing i do
But still no weight gain and loose stool
Her stool is dark,oily,with a bad smell and once in a day

Barb
Staff
Posts: 851
Country: United States
State: New Jersey

Re: I really need help😔

Post by Barb » 03 Nov 2022, 15:31

Hello Farshid. A warm welcome to you and Hana. The beginning stages are always the hardest until you get everything in balance. I don't know what measurement your scoop is that you use for enzymes each meal. We recommend 1 teaspoon of enzymes per cup of food...which would be one of our commercial brands of kibble. It sounds like you may need more calories to get Hana to put on weight. Can you get commercial dog food where you live so that you could measure the food and the enzymes more accurately until she gains some weight?

Don't be discouraged. You are doing a good job with her and this can be worked out. Definitely keep a journal of everything she eats each day and the resulting poos. This will give you information about what is working or needs to be adjusted.

I think you also mentioned that your other dogs are under weight also. Did I read that correctly?

Barb

Farshid
Member
Posts: 11
Country: Iran
Pet name: Hana
My name: Farshid

Re: I really need help😔

Post by Farshid » 04 Nov 2022, 08:48

Hi barb
Thanks for your time
I have just one dog (hana)
All Commercial dog foods unfortunetly isnt Available in iran
But some like royal canin is here
Be sure i use the exact amount of enzyme for every meal
Now i am thinking that only thing i never changed was her fat in her food
I think hana”s digestion is very sensitive to fat
And because of her very poor coat i never reduce fat
But i think may be this is the solution

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Montgomery
Member
Posts: 308
Country: Canada
Pet name: Montgomery (I'm a CAT!)
My name: V

Re: I really need help😔

Post by Montgomery » 04 Nov 2022, 08:57

Are you using anything to balance out the raw calf meat and pumpkin? If that is her only food, she is going to be missing out on some things she needs.
Montgomery was born 20 March 2012. He eats extra lean ground chicken and lean ground beef completed with Alnutrin and freeze-dried chicken liver, with hard-cooked egg. He gets two size zero capsules of Enzyme Diane's enzymes at each of his six meals, and Dr. Maggie at breakfast. He's a strong, fearless little Spitfire with a real Merlin engine.

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Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 2996
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: I really need help😔

Post by Olesia711 » 04 Nov 2022, 17:20

good point V !!!
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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Michaela
Member
Posts: 114
Country: United States
State: Texas
Pet name: Nikki
My name: Michaela

Re: I really need help😔

Post by Michaela » 05 Nov 2022, 09:09

Hi Farshid,

breaks my heart to read Hanah is still not doing well. If I'm reading this correct, she was diagnosed over a year ago?

I'm going to touch on some things that stand out to me. I realize that you have limited options in your country, but her diet is really unbalanced, and I am not a fan of raw meat, I know that some people don't like to hear this. I would really like to see her on a good kibble, and you can add canned food. Can you tell us what is available in your country? I would like to see her on a diet for GI issues to see if she improves. Can your vet get this one, Nikki does fine on it. https://www.royalcanin.com/us/dogs/prod ... d-dog-food

When she was eating the Royal Canin food previously did her poops improve at all?

At minimum I would reduce some of the fat in her diet and cook her meat, EPI dogs do really well with sweet potato, can you get those? She may even need a little bit of grain, how about adding some over-cooked (mushy) white rice? The unbalance diet still doesn't explain the inability for her to gain weight, just seems like something else is going on. If you continue to feed this unbalanced diet, she's going to come down with other issues eventually.

Have any other tests been done at all? It just seems like something else is going on for her not to gain weight. Did your vet check for parasites, giardia, etc? I would run the IDEXX Real PCR Diarrhea panel just to rule out some things if she was my dog. https://cms4.netnews.cz/files/attachmen ... panels.pdf

https://www.akc.org/expert-advice/healt ... a-in-dogs/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl ... testinalis.

The enzymes you are using should be fine, we use Pan-Tenex and no problems. Can you get raw beef pancreas in your country? You can't cook it, or it won't work, it has to fed raw but worth a try, I guess.

Do you know her B12 levels, have they been checked lately?

There is a Facebook group where veterinarians answer questions from pet owners, they get a ton of requests, so there is no guarantee you will get an answer but worth a try. There are specialists in this group and if you decide to post start your post with "Hello Vets". Here is the link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/337421456457048

Here are two calculators where you can look up calories but from your post it seems she gets enough. Hanah and Nikki are about the same size and Nikki needs about 1200 calories a day. Hana would need about 50% more until she is at her regular weight. https://your-calories.com/cooked-ground ... he%20table.

https://nutritiondata.self.com/foods-sw ... 00000.html

Hopefully someone else will chime in with some ideas for you, I really hope you can figure this out soon :(

Michaela
Nikki was diagnosed with EPI in 2010
Royal Canin Gastrointestinal Low Fat canned
Slippery Elm syrup for stomach issues
1 tsp Pan-Tenex enzymes with each meal
Weekly B12 shots, pills didn't work for her
Tylan for life


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