I really need help😔

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.โ€™s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
SherriZ
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Posts: 18
Location: Knoxville,TN
Country: United States
State: Tennessee
Pet name: Harley
My name: Sherri

Re: I really need help😔

Post by SherriZ » 05 Nov 2022, 11:22

Hi Farshid,
I am having the same problem with my GSD, Harley. I've tried increasing calories, still stuck about 70lbs, she is a large GSD and literally fur on a skeleton. I am looking at options to lower cost and increase her calories. I am considering trying a raw/homemade diet to reduce cost and increase calories. I am lucky enough to live in the Tennessee country side and be able to plant some of our needs and have friends with farms. Good luck, I hope your pup gains.
Harley is a 4 year old GSD Diagnosis was confirmed 2/4/2022. PLI <30, TLI<1.0. She is currently managed with Enzyme Diane and B-12.

Farshid
Member
Posts: 11
Country: Iran
Pet name: Hana
My name: Farshid

Re: I really need help😔

Post by Farshid » 05 Nov 2022, 13:59

Hello again
And thanks for your kindness and tips
About kibble food
Yes we have limitation to acscess
But some brands like hills and royal canin is available but because my country is under sanction they are so expensive
But as i said i tried some like royal canin and i see no improvment
And the other problem is hana has allergy to chicken and egg and It made the work more difficult
Some friends told about sweet potato and cooked rice, i tried both of them and no improvment๐Ÿ˜ข

I think some thing made worsen her stools and this is the problem and i guess this is her food fat percentage

as i said because of her very poor coat i never reduce her fat percent and maybe this is the problem

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Olesia711
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Location: North Carolina
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Re: I really need help😔

Post by Olesia711 » 05 Nov 2022, 14:01

thanks Michaela for your very informative AND thorough post... Great links too....some that i was not aware of and greatly appreciate!
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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Olesia711
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Re: I really need help😔

Post by Olesia711 » 05 Nov 2022, 14:07

Farshid,


And yes..... although fat soluble vitamins are needed especially in an EPI dog..... fat, especially long chain fats (from meat products) can make small intestinal dysbiosis worse in some EPI dogs..........
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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Michaela
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Posts: 114
Country: United States
State: Texas
Pet name: Nikki
My name: Michaela

Re: I really need help😔

Post by Michaela » 05 Nov 2022, 14:12

You're welcome Olesia

Farshid: I have a balanced catfish/sweet potato recipe that I would be more than happy to share with you. I also had one with pork and sweet potato but will have to see if I can find it. We moved and it's packed up somewhere.
Nikki was diagnosed with EPI in 2010
Royal Canin Gastrointestinal Low Fat canned
Slippery Elm syrup for stomach issues
1 tsp Pan-Tenex enzymes with each meal
Weekly B12 shots, pills didn't work for her
Tylan for life


"If there ever comes a day when we can't be together, keep me in your heart, I'll stay there forever."

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Olesia711
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Location: North Carolina
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Re: I really need help😔

Post by Olesia711 » 05 Nov 2022, 14:36

H again Farshid,

I think Michaela may have a possible answer..... with 800 grams of meat daily.... my guess is that is not enough..... some dogs, (and especially EPI dogs) often NEED more food than what is recommended.

For example, my female 35lb EPI (Spanish Water Dog) ate more than double that my 60-65lb male Spanish Water dog.
WHen she developed Diabetes in addition to EPI.... i changed her diet to all home-prepared. I give her sufficient calories, or so i thought... and she started losing a lot of weight.

My solution was to continue to feed her 80% home-made food BUT i had to include 20% kibble (not expensive and not prescription) to increase the calories on a concentrated form.

Just sharing this as maybe you can find a kibble to add to the home-made food you are making.

Regarding the loose stools...... her stools are brown? not yellow or pale???? This leads me to suspect that maybe something other than EPI (or small intestinal dysbiosis) is causing the loose stools. And it could be a food or some minor ingredient in something that you are giving that is causing the loose brown stools, or a bacteria, some sort of other infection, a toxin, or even some fiber might be needed in the diet, or more enzymes even though you said you did increase them and that didn't work. my guess is that you might need 1 tsp (measure the scoop that comes with Pantenex Enzymes) per 240 grams of food.

But for the weight gain, i too think that more food is probably needed..... but.... as you mentioned earlier..... reduce fatty foods as this sometimes can cause loose stools in some dogs...................

As something to try..... have you tried given a pinch of tumeric and or ginger? Tumeric has been known to help with IBD (food sensitivities) but try it out and watch the poos as in rare cases...with some dogs, it can give them loose stools.... Ginger in tiny doses is also very helpful , but even though it says you can give with or without food... the better option is to give with food.
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

Farshid
Member
Posts: 11
Country: Iran
Pet name: Hana
My name: Farshid

Re: I really need help😔

Post by Farshid » 05 Nov 2022, 14:56

Thank you olesia
Yes i can mix raw meat with hypo allergenic royal canin for her to make more calories for her and a little more balanced food
Often her stools is black and oily and one time in a day

For the first thing if you are agree i will do this changes:
Lower the fat percentage
Add royal canin hypo allergenic slowly
And more callorie for her
Is that enough?

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Olesia711
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Posts: 2980
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
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Re: I really need help😔

Post by Olesia711 » 05 Nov 2022, 17:06

hmmmm........... when you say black stools and oily..... when you say "oily" can this also be described as a tarry-like ??? if so... then this could be an internal bleed.....in which case the vet should see the dog...

if not black, just almost black / or a very dark brown, then you do not have to worry about an internal bleed...
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

Farshid
Member
Posts: 11
Country: Iran
Pet name: Hana
My name: Farshid

Re: I really need help😔

Post by Farshid » 08 Nov 2022, 04:47

Giod news๐Ÿ˜๐Ÿ˜๐Ÿ˜๐Ÿ˜
Hi to every one
After 4 day reducing fat, yesteraday and today hana poo improver alot
Not oily, better color(like brown), and much Better consistency๐Ÿ˜
She also gained 2 pounds in these 3 days๐Ÿ˜
These 3 days I mixed a bout 20 gerams of royal canin hypo allergenic kibble with 160 gr of low fat meat with a little piece of pumpkin and tylosin due to the right dose
I know that her food isnt balanced but i i am scaring a bout sudden changes
Just im looking for increase her kibble very slowly for more balanced food
Thanks again
You did a lot for me๐Ÿ™

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Jean
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Posts: 1628
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: I really need help😔

Post by Jean » 08 Nov 2022, 05:46

this is the type of post we like

I feel for you with sanctions creating expense , none political comment obviously ,

Everywhere in the world is struggling at trhe moment for whatever reasons

Just keep up the good work, and its hard when you have food intolerances

Kara couldnt do chicken either


Jx :D
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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